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So I read through the rules on pagr 42 a few times but I still have a question. If a model has say 4 attacks in it's profile and is armed with a power fist and a bolter. Does it get all 4 attacks at double Str Int 1 or only 1 Att with the power weapon or only 1 Att with the power weapon and the other three with it's normal Str and Int?

All attacks come from the Fist. So on the charge it would be 4+1(charging) Dbl str I1 PF attacks

All the attacks in the profile would go towards whatever special close combat gear you have. Whether its a power first, power weapon or any other kind of close combat gear they have.

Also, for powerfists, you dont get that extra CC attack if you have a pistol correct?

ajefferism wrote:Also, for powerfists, you dont get that extra CC attack if you have a pistol correct?

Correct.

For Power Fists and Thunder Hammmers, you only get +1 attack for 2 CCWS if they carry 2 of the special weapon.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:For Power Fists and Thunder Hammmers, you only get +1 attack for 2 CCWS if they carry 2 of the special weapon.

Iranna.

And Lightning Claws!

MrJody wrote:So I read through the rules on pagr 42 a few times but I still have a question. If a model has say 4 attacks in it's profile and is armed with a power fist and a bolter. Does it get all 4 attacks at double Str Int 1 or only 1 Att with the power weapon or only 1 Att with the power weapon and the other three with it's normal Str and Int?

Slightly OT: Can a model chose not to use a special weapon and instead strike at normal Init value ? I remember a discussion about Marneus Calgar - he has a Pwoer Sword and 2 Power Fists.

No, you MUST use any special weapon you have. P35 and P42 cover this.

Marneus is an oddity, as he has 3 special weapons

Alkasyn wrote:

MrJody wrote:So I read through the rules on pagr 42 a few times but I still have a question. If a model has say 4 attacks in it's profile and is armed with a power fist and a bolter. Does it get all 4 attacks at double Str Int 1 or only 1 Att with the power weapon or only 1 Att with the power weapon and the other three with it's normal Str and Int?

Slightly OT: Can a model chose not to use a special weapon and instead strike at normal Init value ? I remember a discussion about Marneus Calgar - he has a Pwoer Sword and 2 Power Fists.

If only one special and one normal, then no "turning off" the special weapon. If the model has 2 types of special weapons, he can choose which to use. If you have a case like Marneus or Eldrad, discuss extra attacks with your opponent pregame so no one gets surprised in the heat of battle.

Homer

Thanks everyone.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, you MUST use any special weapon you have. P35 and P42 cover this.

Marneus is an oddity, as he has 3 special weapons

For Clarity P.35 states you have to "use any special close combat attack they have" [They means model in this case.]

It mentions nothing about having to use any special close combat weapons.

P.42 covers the point that if you are using a special CCW and a normal CCW to fight with, you use the Special CCW's bonuses and penalties.

And, again, this is where you think a special CCW is somehow not a special attack, whereas by definition it is.

Iranna wrote:

ajefferism wrote:Also, for powerfists, you dont get that extra CC attack if you have a pistol correct?

Correct.

For Power Fists and Thunder Hammmers, you only get +1 attack for 2 CCWS if they carry 2 of the special weapon.

Iranna.

what about ork big choppas? are they a CCW that just adds +2S or a special weapon?

They are a Special Weapon, by definition. Theyre also two handed weapons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:And, again, this is where you think a special CCW is somehow not a special attack, whereas by definition it is.

No, a Special attack is something different than a special weapon.

Reference Gabriel Seth's Special attack called Whirlwind of gore. P.55 Blood Angels codex

This is different than a normal attack with a special weapon.

Distinctions with no basis in rules are no distinction at all.

So I understand that a model with 2 CCW gets an extra AT. Does that mean a Hive Tyrant with a Bonesword and a Lashwhip get the extra AT for two CCW? Oh and why hasn't somebody just called GW to get an official ruling on choosing which weapons to use if there are more than 2? They used to have an 800 number for just such questons.

While I don't have a tryanid book so I can't answer your question (don't want to give a wrong answer) MrJody, I can tell you that calling GW is about as helpful as asking a homeless person for money. GW's hotline answers aren't official by any means, and they are given by people that can give you answer a the first time you call and answer b the second time you call.

Tyranids never get a bonus attack for multipe CCW biomorphs. It's in the codex.

MrJody wrote:So I understand that a model with 2 CCW gets an extra AT. Does that mean a Hive Tyrant with a Bonesword and a Lashwhip get the extra AT for two CCW? Oh and why hasn't somebody just called GW to get an official ruling on choosing which weapons to use if there are more than 2? They used to have an 800 number for just such questons.

Because a phone call is not an official ruling, nor is an email. You would need it to be amended to the FAQ.

Nids never gain an additional attack from multiple ccw, the codex states this

As for my stance I feel attacking with a PF would be rather special

Page 33, Nids do NOT have CCW. Ever.

DeathReaper wrote:For Clarity P.35 states you have to "use any special close combat attack they have" [They means model in this case.]

DeathReaper wrote:No, a Special attack is something different than a special weapon.

Reference Gabriel Seth's Special attack called Whirlwind of gore. P.55 Blood Angels codex

This is different than a normal attack with a special weapon.

Taking these two quotes of yours together, it seems you're suggesting that Gabriel, Canis, etc. are all required to use those special rules, which is not the case.

somerandomdude wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:For Clarity P.35 states you have to "use any special close combat attack they have" [They means model in this case.]

DeathReaper wrote:No, a Special attack is something different than a special weapon.

Reference Gabriel Seth's Special attack called Whirlwind of gore. P.55 Blood Angels codex

This is different than a normal attack with a special weapon.

Taking these two quotes of yours together, it seems you're suggesting that Gabriel, Canis, etc. are all required to use those special rules, which is not the case.

If his rules did not state that you had a choice, you would have to use his special attack EVERY TIME.

So, the only attacks that you must use, according to the rules on page 35, are the ones that... always say "may"?

somerandomdude wrote:So, the only attacks that you must use, according to the rules on page 35, are the ones that... always say "may"?

this. ive always thought may to mean optional, if i want to.

somerandomdude wrote:So, the only attacks that you must use, according to the rules on page 35, are the ones that... always say "may"?

A good example is the Techmarine.

He has all of his normal attacks, then he has a Special attack because of the Servo-Arm rules.

and Servo-arm states he gains an additional attack at I1 at Str 8.

That attack is not affected by furious charge, and has its own special rules for resolving this attack.

you MUST use his servo-arm attack even if you do not want to.

DeathReaper wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:So, the only attacks that you must use, according to the rules on page 35, are the ones that... always say "may"?

A good example is the Techmarine.

He has all of his normal attacks, then he has a Special attack because of the Servo-Arm rules.

and Servo-arm states he gains an additional attack at I1 at Str 8.

That attack is not affected by furious charge, and has its own special rules for resolving this attack.

you MUST use his servo-arm attack even if you do not want to.

Which is completely redundant, as you're already forced to use all your attacks in close combat. Why would they write that if that's what they meant?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Which is completely redundant, as you're already forced to use all your attacks in close combat. Why would they write that if that's what they meant?

They wrote many redundant things in the BRB.

and the rules as a whole were written poorly.

DeathReaper wrote:
and the rules as a whole were written poorly.

This we can agree on.

You're right the GW hotline may not be the "official" answer but it is an answer from someone who hopefully know what they are talking about and can be impartial. We just call them when a rule cannot be found or agreed apon and use that as the ruling no mateer what. Just an easy way to end a debate and get back to gaming is all. As for choosing CCW's im going to put my 2 cents worth in and agree why have more than two if you can't choose which ones to use? Oh and thanks for answering the Tyranid question I had overlokked that. Still be nice to get that extra CC attack with the bonesword.