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Hey guys. Whipped up a Guard list and wanted some input.

1750, here we go:

Command- Creed, 2x Plasmagun, Astropath

Platoon
Infantry Command-2x Plasmagun

Squad1-Autocannon, Grenade Luancher

Squad2-Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

Squad3-Heavy Bolter, Meltagun

Platoon
Infantry Comman-4x Grenade Launcher

Squad1- Flamer

Squad2-Meltagun

Squad3-Meltagun

8 Storm Troopers-2x Meltagun, grav insertion

2 Scout Sentinels-2x HK Missile

2 Scout Sentinels-2x HK Missile

Demolisher-Plasma Sponsons, Heavy Bolter Hull, Heavy Stubber Pintle

2x Leman Russ Battle Tank-Hveay Bolter Hulls, Heavy Stubber Pintles

Manticore

1743


The plan is to set up a fire base with the static platoon and manticore in sort of a refused flank, have the battle tanks move every turn and have the mobile platoon support them. I'll concentrate heavily on one flank turn one, and then turn two hopefully (with the help of mr.astropath) have the sentinels and demolisher outflank and the storm troopers deep strike in to do as much damage as possible to the enemy's sides, emphasizing important units where possible, and force them to choose to either press on towards my lines or turn to confront the new threat. At this point I'll smush them.

I know this isn't a perfect list and I have some unorthodox things, like Storm Troopers and lots of Grenade Launchers. Honestly I think storm troopers are neat and I have a bunch of models converted and painted from the old doctrine days of carapace armored deep striking guard armies and I want to use at least some of them. And I think grenade launchers are under rated, being decent against just about any threat aside from heavy armor and firing to full effect on the move.

Another note, I don't want to use veterans or chimeras. They're overused.

Some questions: Do I need to find room for more heavy weapons with the infantry? I wanted to fit in at least one autocannon squad but there aren't points unless I make major tweaks. Also, how do you guys run sentinels? I like the S6 and multiple shots of the stock multilaser, but I thought they'd be good with autocannons too. The HK missiles are kind of meh, but the outflank plan means I want them to have as much firepower as possible off the bat. S8 and S6 should be enough to damage some side armor right?

So what do you think? Obviously not min/maxed and super uber, but I think it'll be fun to play and at least moderately successful.

Keep your storm troopers at 5-man as much as possible more than that they start to get expensive. Especially since you're planning to suicide them, getting more bodies won't benefit you as you have already maxed out their special weapons.

Seeing as you have you platoon as separate squads, you will have a hard time claiming some objectives. 10-man squads will just be wiped off the board before you know it. Usually people go powerblobs to give them at least a chance in scoring as they're much tougher and wont run off the board as much as separate squads. It also has good synergy with Creed. You could use one platoon as a blob then the other as a gun line bubble wrap if that's what you want

I'd give the sentinels autocannons. Higher str shots give you better chances to penetrate rear/side armor if you outflank them. Also helps in dealing with MCs and AV 10-11 transports.

The thing about GL being underrated was already answered by your reason for using them. You said they are decent against just about any threat and that's just it they are only decent. Why would players bother themselves and get something that is only decent at handling s couple of roles when they could get a weapon that is good at what it does best better than GLs.

Either way at 1750 you have very little things that could deal with high AV you'll encounter problems with those.

Getting HWS with autocannons will help you with transports and such but still won't help you against heavy AV

Play a lot of games and you will know which stuff to change hopefully GLs would work for your playstyle. Good luck and Happy Gaming.

P.S. Veterans and chimeras are not overused. They're troop choices and the only other competitive build based on infantry are powerblobs which require a lot more time moving, so people don't really have a choice do they. Besides do you see people saying CCS are overused? No? but they're almost on every IG list because they're the best HQ choice which is needed for your FOC; I'd expect the same with mechvets and powerblobs (pretty much same with the GL argument). Don't worry I'm not forcing you to use them I'm just saying don't say mechvets are overused.

I have to agree with Horo's advice.

You really want to blob the PISs and add in a Commissar. The simple fact is you lose 3 guys in a turn (thus over 25%) and your making a Ld 5 morale check... your squad is running away from a single heavy bolter. Commissar makes them Stubborn and are Ld 9 for Orders.

Run two 20 man blobs, use the saved points to properly kit out the blobs (PWs, Commissars, Meltas, Melta bombs). Drop the STs to 5 men, the HKs, and the sponsons from the Demolisher. Those points should allow you to buy a LC HWS and maybe even a Lord Commissar to go with it. If you have enough points for more HWSs, place them within 6" of the Lord Commissar due to his Aura of Discipline.

Dude... GLs just plain suck. Horo is being nice, and this may make you 'want to prove me wrong', but there are only two good things about them... 36" range and assault. That would be great on anything else but a Str 6 AP 4 Krak and a Str 3 AP 6 Frag. Combine that with a BS 3 troop that hits 50% of the time... and you will be asking yourself why your not using a weapon that will actually do something when you hit with it. To me, Marines are the bench mark, and GLs make marines in their power armor giggle.

I would also consider dropping a LRBT because I am not a fan of Squadrons. The whole squadron has to fire on one target and you have to split up hits. I would seriously suggest a second lone Demolisher or replacing both for two Executioners. You have the right idea that the tanks need infantry support and I like the stubber, but the Stubbers should only really be spent if you have the extra points for it. You have empty special weapon slots so you really don't.

Scout Sentinals... Vendettas do the same thing but better. Now that I have that off of my chest, I am going to assume you want to keep them. Right idea of a 3 shot weapon on a BS 3 guy... 1-2 shots should hit. But Str 6 is really a anti-Infantry weapon then a vehicle weapon. Think about it, even AV 10 your glancing on a 4+. AC is the better choice if your light vehicle hunting (AV 12 or less).

My suggested tweaks would look like this...

CCS - 240pts
Creed, 2x Plasma guns, LC, Camo Cloaks, Astropath

Lord Commissar - 80pts
Bolter, Camo Cloak

5 man ST - 105pts
2x Melta guns, Airbourne Assault

Platoon 1

PCS - 55pts
4x Flamers, Melta bomb

PIS - 130pts (blob 1)
Commissar, 2x PWs, Melta gun, AC, Melta bomb

PIS - 85pts (blob 1)
PW, Melta gun, AC, Melta bomb

Platoon 2

PCS - 55pts
4x Flamers, Melta bomb

PIS - 120pts (blob 2)
Commissar, 2x PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PIS - 75pts (blob 2)
PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

HWS - 105pts
3x LCs

HWS - 75pts
3x ACs

Scout Sentinals - 45pts
AC, Smoke Launchers

Scout Sentinal - 45pts
AC, Smoke Launchers

Scout Sentinal - 45pts
AC, Smoke Launchers

Demolisher - 165pts

Demolisher - 165pts

Manticore - 160pts

I split up your Sentinals to give a better chance for one of them to come in Turn 2. I did give them Camo Netting (and camo netting on the Manticore) but I felt the AC HWS was a bigger priority. Feel free to revert back if you don't want the ACs.
Your defensive blob has meltas for drop pod walker or deep striking terminator shennanigans (aka defence), much less outflanking vehicles. They are also assualt weapons so you can charge and fire them.
Creed has your choice of 2 HWSs, the CCS, and the Defensive blob for 'Bring it Down!' for his 4 Orders. I will point out the STs are the same cost as a LC HWS. That HWS is there turn 1 and can fire every round and is scoring. I know you have the figs and want to use them, but I think your really better off using them as Vets with Grenadiers or using them as STs in a 2000pt game. Both units are doing the same job, it is just your throwing away one unit IMO. The power blobs can use 'For Cadia!' more effectivily then anything in your current list. Make sure you read up on the Rapid fire rules and Assaulting.
The idea is the attacking blob is flanked by the two Demolishers with the PCSs behind the Demolishers. The PCSs can burn out cover save based infantry (read: Not power armor) on objectives (Scouts, Rangers, Gretchen, Ect) and can then stay behind to hold the objective once they are cleared.

I made some changes based on your input. I think this looks better and still has the feel I want.

Command-Creed, 2x Plasma, Astropath

Platoon 1
IC- Heavy Bolter

Squad 1-Plasmagun, Autocannon

Squad 2-Plasmagun, Autocannon

Platoon 2
IC- 4x Grenade Launcher

Squad 1-Meltagun, Power Weapon, Commissar

Squad 2-Meltagun, Power Weapon

Heavy Weapons- 3x Autocannon

5 Stormtroopers- 2 Meltaguns, Airborne

5 Stormtroopers- 2 Meltaguns, Airborne

2 Scout Sentinels- Autocannons

2 Scout Sentinels- Autocannons

Maticore

Demolisher- Plasma, Heavy Bolter, Stubber

2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks- Heavy Bolter, Stubber

-1750 on the nose



I made one platoon blobby, and since they are meant so accompany the tank squadron I think that's a good move. I moved all the GLs to one infantry command. I figured this lets them move about to where they are needed and provide some fire support regardless of movement. 4 S6 shots or 4 templates, even if they aren't strong, is pretty dang good for 50 points, I'd say anyways. S6 is sufficient to pop light armor and wound most things, AP4 isnt terrible, and with 4 templates it should equate out to more than a squads worth of lasgun shots. These guys should be a nice little utility unit. If after a few games I decide I'd rather have flamers, turns out they're the same points...so there's that.

Shooty Squads got Plasmaguns and that infantry command got a Heavy Bolter. This makes all the special shots S7 from those squads and gives them more punch against power armor/monsters/what have you. And I squeezed in an autocannon squad and stuck autos on the sentinels, making them a bit cheaper and getting that fun fun S7. I feel like I have a ton of S7 shots, which is good for what is seen often IE lots of medium to light armor.

I split the stormtroopers into 2 squads, giving me another chance to get a squad in when and where I need it, giving me another unit for anti-heavy armor strikes, and letting me still use more of the models I want. Seem ok to you guys?

These tweaks, I think, make some improvements but don't change the list too too much. It also happens that I'm closer to having all the models needed with this list, which is nifty.

Thoooooughts?

I think you will be happy with the load of ACs you have, but you still do not have any real long range AT that deals with AV 13 and 14. Heck, your only options are your Melta guns, so you have nothing Turn 1 and it is a dice roll for Turn 2 and hope you don't scatter into something that makes you lose your STs.

Your going to be in alot of trouble if a Land Raider is on the board. I also think you will have issues with Dreadnaughts too.

i dont play guard myself so take this with a grain of salt

as for the actual list i have no idea

but from whta i have played against and talked to people about it seems that there is really 3 ways to run a guard list effectivly

a ton of tanks to drive around and then beefed up units to jump out and deal with whatever the tank didnt kill.
running all your guys in valkaries and just getting the sh load of shots it gets and the manoverablity of the valkaeries to basically control the battle

or for a staic list with lots of troops run a circle. the inside is your commander the middle ring is your heavy weapons teams and the outside are your basic guardsman.
i have played that lst list many times and it is dam hard to gget to the middle and actually hurt the command squad

that and the valkery list is just insaly moble and ripps things apart real easy

this is just my 2 cents and i hope you can come up with a really good list

and if you ever get tired of the emporers damming silence feel free to join the renegades

CHAOS!!!

I guess I could try to sneak some lascannons in somewhere, but I do have the manticore which should be able to handle a landraider. I don't expect to see many armies with mutliple landraiders, but I guess if I do then we'll see what happens. I should be able to fairly reliably take out one early with the manticore and at least one other via melta stormtroopers, which will come in on 3s turn 2. Also of note is the demolisher, which also comes in early by means of souped up outflank. I feel that the autocannon proliferation will do me well, as more people use transports and lighter armor these days. I don't want to cut back too much on them or drastically change the list for a few lascannons that won't be as good as the cheaper autocannons a lot of the time.

One thing that seems neat is trying to get a Pask driven Vanquisher in. I really like the idea of the super anti tank tank with the ace commander. He's pricey though, and I have no idea what to change to fit it in.