Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm currently really into running Vindicators with POTMS as BT.

I usually send a LrC with terminators foward with them, but I am considering switching to a larger 14 man Crusader squad. I'm making this post knowing that single LrC deathstars are not very competitive. I just have a lot of fun running them and I want to do the most to make it work.

My options:

HQ/IC Companions attached to the squad:
Emperor's Champion /w Accept
Marshal /w Terminator Hours/Meltabombs/PW/SS


3x Lightning Claws 3x TH/SS with Furious Charge - 523
LrC

These guys usually tear through things rather easily if they get the charge off on vehicles,MCs,MEQs and lesser. They cannot score and they just can't soak up wounds from high initiative assaulters and constant plasma fire.

OR

8 Crusaders with BP/CCW-488
1 /w Melta
1 /w PW
+ 4 Neophytes
LrC

Scoring unit, lots of attacks and wounds. Downsides: I see them stuggling a lot with t5+ and much less efficient at killing MEQs. Maybe kit the Marshal with a PF if I'm running this?

If you've got the extra 5 points, I'd go for a PF in the squad itself, rather than the PW. You trade one attack per round for a shot to Not be tar-pitted by a single Kan or Walker with front armor 11.

Between the Crusader squad and the terminators, I'd go with the Crusader. If your transport gets popped turn one, you have enough wounds to hopefully make good use of the Righteous Zeal moves, in addition to being able to string out rather wide if you need to claim two adjacent objectives in a pinch.

Just my thoughts, YMMV

Termies but increase the number of LC.

Crusaders are not good in cc. They would struggle against any cc unit and being able to beat any noncc unit does not make them cc champions.

InnerLight wrote:If you've got the extra 5 points, I'd go for a PF in the squad itself, rather than the PW. You trade one attack per round for a shot to Not be tar-pitted by a single Kan or Walker with front armor 11.

Between the Crusader squad and the terminators, I'd go with the Crusader. If your transport gets popped turn one, you have enough wounds to hopefully make good use of the Righteous Zeal moves, in addition to being able to string out rather wide if you need to claim two adjacent objectives in a pinch.

Just my thoughts, YMMV

I would like to point out how bad single attack powerfists are (which is what crusader fists are, the 2 attack PW is playable only because you expect to charge what they are good at killing, even then not the greatest use of points). That not afraid to be tarpitted by a walker is a incredibly bad way of thinking how much damage that piece of wargear on that model will do. 1 attack (nobody charges walkers with crusaders), 1/2 hits, most walkers other than ork trash walkers are AV 12, so need a 5 to pen (so total at 1/6), then need a 5+ to destroy it. So 1/18 per round of combat. Those are odds only fools rely on. Against AV 11 trashkans you only improve to 8 percent from 5 vs AV 12. If you charged, double those incredibly bad numbers to be not as a bad but still terrible.

I would go with the termies, the crusader trash mobs are only good at killing things that bolters and blasts should be able to mop up. The strength of BT lies in the units and rules that other armies don't get, and crappy assault squads are in all marine armies (though its nice to have bullet catcher scouts in the unit, it doesn't really add as much to you unit other than make it cost more)