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Hey everyone. Tell me what you think of these two 1000 point lists. Not quite ready for move to 1000 points, but the allure of being able to field more "what I would like" is nice.

HQ:
Farseer - (Guide/Doom/Spirit Stones)

Troop 1:
5 Dire Avengers - (Exarch/Dual Shuriken)
Falcon - (Eldar Missle Launcher/Shuriken Cannon/Holo-fields)

Troop 2:
6 Dire Avengers - (Exarch/Dual Shuriken)
Falcon - (Scatter Laser/Holo-fields)

Troop 3:
8 Dire Avengers - (Exarch)
Wave Serpent - (Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon)

Heavy Support:
Fire Prism - (Holo-fields)

Total: 1002

Granted, its two points over but if someone really had an issue with it I would just drop one of the Dual Shurikens. A following is also an possibility:

HQ:
Farseer - (Guide/Doom/Spirit Stones)

Troop 1:
5 Dire Avengers - (Exarch/Dual Shuriken)
Falcon - (Eldar Missle Launcher/Shuriken Cannon/Holo-fields)

Troop 2:
8 Dire Avengers - (Exarch/Dual Shuriken)
Wave Serpent - (Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon)

Troop 3:
8 Dire Avengers - (Exarch)
Wave Serpent - (Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon)

Heavy Support:
Fire Prism - 150 (Holo-fields)

Total: 998

Idea with either list is pretty straight forward. Fire Prism sits back and rains death in with its 60" range. I put holo-fields on it cause I'm sure it will be a major target. Both lists have the same idea for support troops as well, with the FS/5 DA squad sitting back in a Falcon contesting a point. FS uses Guide on Falcon, and has the ability to zoom up within 24", cast doom and have the Shuriken Cannon + Other Falcon Weapons rain down Guided goodness. List 1 is a bit more focused on the amount of firewpower a Falcon can bring to the field. In list 2, both WS would advance and drop their payload off when needed, but the main idea would be harassment tactics with their scatter lasers until I needed to drop the DA's off. Scatter Laser + Pulse Laser + Holo-Fields will make for a bad-ass support vehicle, also drawing needed attention off of the FP and the FS's Falcon. Granted though, this comes at the loss of two DA's in the squad. I am however leaning towards list 1, if not just for the Holo-Field on that Falcon. Any and all input would be great! I am obviously going mech...and was throwing around the idea of fitting in 3 Vipers with Scatter Lasers. Thanks all!

Well, I'd take a Doomseer, 2 DA units in Serpents, 1 Harlie unit in a Falcon, and some HS (Warwalkers) depending on remaining pts.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I'd take a Doomseer, 2 DA units in Serpents, 1 Harlie unit in a Falcon, and some HS (Warwalkers) depending on remaining pts.

I will consider your list, though I was really hoping to fit a FP in it at 1000 points. Also, I'm honestly not too into Harlie's, is there anyway that banshees would make a viable substitute?

a few rules of thumb as you start building bigger lists

1) Dire Avenger Exarchs are force multipliers, they are taken primarily for bladestorm (I say primarily because it is possible to use a Shimmer Shield + Defend variant in larger foot games to block charges.) Generally when you have only 4 or 5 avengers to boost, bladestorm just isn't worth it. Since your Falcons will be parked on an objective, and their contents will never be shooting- there are a lot of better things you could spend points on than an Exarch in your list.

2) Fire Prisms should never be run alone. Redundancy is always good, but the primary selling point of Fire Prisms is that they can combine their fire for a variety of blasts that can help any situation. The versatility of having an s10 ap1 shot, 2 s9 ap2 shots, 1 s6 ap3 shot, or 2 s5 ap4 shots really helps make sure that your prisms have a blast to fit any occasion. A single prism is universally inferior to the Night Spinner. The Night Spinner's gun is already twin linked, its s6 rending, and the difficult + dangerous terrain is really useful for messing up fast enemy units. As for holofields, I'm a bit torn. I love the upgrade, but often I'll drop em to squeeze more stuff in. ymmv, but play around with points and see if you can fit em.

3) Too many troops. The rule of thumb is have 1 troop choice per 500 points. So you shouldn't even be considering another troop choice until at least 1250 points. This is a perfect opportunity to fit in some Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons are arguably the best unit in the entire game of 40K- let alone the Eldar Codex. 80 points for a 5 bs4 melta shots is a steal in any book. You put them in a Wave Serpent, because Falcons are long range support tanks- you know with multiple 48 inch guns... and really have no business turbo boosting straight at the enemy like a colossal waste of points.

4) Speaking of Falcons, take the chin cannon off of yours. A Falcon really has no business cruising to within 24 inch range in a list this size. You probably want to be parked on your home objective, hanging out, and providing supporting fire from your guided missile launcher + Pulse laser. Especially since the extra shuri cannon has almost no synergy with the pulse laser... s8 ap2 really has nothing in common with s6 ap5... Also don't take more Falcons than you can guide, which generally means just do one. It makes a good scoring bastion, making your opponent have to work really hard to get your troops off an objective, and also protects your board wide psychic defense. However you'd be better off with a second prism than another falcon when filling out your heavy support.

5) I don't see Runes of Warding on your Farseer. That really should come into your list as soon as you can feasibly afford it. It only costs 15 points and is bar none the best psychic defense in the game. Blocks powers 50% of the time and causes perils ~40% of the time. Its not expensive, its bad ass, and should be in every Eldar all comers list from 750 up invariably and without exception.

6) Banshees are ok in mechanized lists above 1500 points. They are not only expensive but they also compete with force organization slots with Fire Dragons, and absolutly need to be in a full squad and supported by a doom seer to really do anything worthwhile. In games below 1500 points you need to focus on getting your basics in- that means starting to fill out your heavy support, and get some dragons on the table.

My 1000 point list actually looks a lot like my 500 point list- surprise, surprise. In large part because I only want / need 1 troop per 500 points, and I needed to squeeze two into my 500 point list. So for 1000 points I fit in some upgrades that I would have taken but for points, add a squad of dragons, and fill out my heavy support.

akaean wrote:a few rules of thumb as you start building bigger lists

1) Dire Avenger Exarchs are force multipliers, they are taken primarily for bladestorm (I say primarily because it is possible to use a Shimmer Shield + Defend variant in larger foot games to block charges.) Generally when you have only 4 or 5 avengers to boost, bladestorm just isn't worth it. Since your Falcons will be parked on an objective, and their contents will never be shooting- there are a lot of better things you could spend points on than an Exarch in your list.

2) Fire Prisms should never be run alone. Redundancy is always good, but the primary selling point of Fire Prisms is that they can combine their fire for a variety of blasts that can help any situation. The versatility of having an s10 ap1 shot, 2 s9 ap2 shots, 1 s6 ap3 shot, or 2 s5 ap4 shots really helps make sure that your prisms have a blast to fit any occasion. A single prism is universally inferior to the Night Spinner. The Night Spinner's gun is already twin linked, its s6 rending, and the difficult + dangerous terrain is really useful for messing up fast enemy units. As for holofields, I'm a bit torn. I love the upgrade, but often I'll drop em to squeeze more stuff in. ymmv, but play around with points and see if you can fit em.

3) Too many troops. The rule of thumb is have 1 troop choice per 500 points. So you shouldn't even be considering another troop choice until at least 1250 points. This is a perfect opportunity to fit in some Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons are arguably the best unit in the entire game of 40K- let alone the Eldar Codex. 80 points for a 5 bs4 melta shots is a steal in any book. You put them in a Wave Serpent, because Falcons are long range support tanks- you know with multiple 48 inch guns... and really have no business turbo boosting straight at the enemy like a colossal waste of points.

4) Speaking of Falcons, take the chin cannon off of yours. A Falcon really has no business cruising to within 24 inch range in a list this size. You probably want to be parked on your home objective, hanging out, and providing supporting fire from your guided missile launcher + Pulse laser. Especially since the extra shuri cannon has almost no synergy with the pulse laser... s8 ap2 really has nothing in common with s6 ap5... Also don't take more Falcons than you can guide, which generally means just do one. It makes a good scoring bastion, making your opponent have to work really hard to get your troops off an objective, and also protects your board wide psychic defense. However you'd be better off with a second prism than another falcon when filling out your heavy support.

5) I don't see Runes of Warding on your Farseer. That really should come into your list as soon as you can feasibly afford it. It only costs 15 points and is bar none the best psychic defense in the game. Blocks powers 50% of the time and causes perils ~40% of the time. Its not expensive, its bad ass, and should be in every Eldar all comers list from 750 up invariably and without exception.

6) Banshees are ok in mechanized lists above 1500 points. They are not only expensive but they also compete with force organization slots with Fire Dragons, and absolutly need to be in a full squad and supported by a doom seer to really do anything worthwhile. In games below 1500 points you need to focus on getting your basics in- that means starting to fill out your heavy support, and get some dragons on the table.

My 1000 point list actually looks a lot like my 500 point list- surprise, surprise. In large part because I only want / need 1 troop per 500 points, and I needed to squeeze two into my 500 point list. So for 1000 points I fit in some upgrades that I would have taken but for points, add a squad of dragons, and fill out my heavy support.

Spoiler:

[98] Farseer- Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Doom

[180] 5 Fire Dragons : Wave Serpent- tl shuri

[242] 10 Storm Gu + Warlock- 2 flamers, destructor : Wave Serpent- tl scatter laser
[129] 3 Gu Bikes + Warlock- cannon, spear, embolden

[120] 2 War Walkers- 4x scatter laser
[115] Fire Prism
[115] Fire Prism

Thanks, this makes alot of sense and largely follows what I have already been told. I am going to be making a new list and posting it sometime to night, honestly I have no issue with fielding two Fire Prisms, I LOVE EM! Haha, will update when I can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the input so far. I am looking at something like this now:

HQ:
Farseer (Guide/Runes of Warding) - Falcon (Eldar Missle Launcher/Holo-fields)

Troop 1:
5 Dire Avengers - With FS in Falcon

Elites:
5 Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent (Need Weapon)

Troop 2:
5 Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent (Need Weapon)

Heavy Support:
Fire Prism (Holo-fields)
Fire Prism (Holo-fields)

Total: 940

Any ideas where I should spend the last 60 points? I obviously need 2 more weapons atleast, 1 for each Wave-Serpent as how they are currently is not legal. I am torn between going light arms on the WS's and taking more troops, or going heavier armaments on the WS and less troops. Any and all input on how to spend the last points would be nice. I am fairly set on this list, so not huge changes.

So nobody has any input about the last 60 points? :/

It looks really good.

As for weapons, I usually recommend a tl shuri cannon for Fire Dragon Wave Serpents- since they zoom straight at the biggest scariest thing your enemy has (and blow it up ) your wave serpent tends to be rather vulnerable as a result of this. So keep it cheap, and if they don't wreck it the shuri cannon *is* a good weapon.

Then I would say go for a scatter laser on your Dire Avenger Wave Serpent. strength 6 fire power really is that good- against the most common transports (rhinos, razor backs, trukks, and side armor of chimeras) Scatter lasers are markedly better then Missiles or Lances- and cheaper too. Really just spam them like they are going out of style .

So thats 10 points on the Dragon Wagon, and 25 points on the Avenger Transport

That leaves you with 25 points to spend on upgrades. I would suggest putting Spirit Stones on your Fire Prisms. Holofields have great synergy with Spirit Stones, as they force a "shaken" result over 50% of the time (which is hilarious) Since you actually increase the odds of a "weapon destroyed" result when you take Holofields, the Spirit Stones can help you continue zipping about, ramming, and tank shocking away.

for the last 5 points... perhaps look into a singing spear for your farseer? You won't use it often, but I like having it when I decide that my farseer doesn't need to be alive anymore and send him off to do solo stuff against tanks that he finds himself close to.

HQ:
Farseer (Guide/Runes of Warding/Singing Spear) - Falcon (Eldar Missle Launcher/Holo-fields)

Troop 1:
5 Dire Avengers - With FS in Falcon

Elites:
5 Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent (Shuriken Cannon)

Troop 2:
5 Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent (Scatter Laser)

Heavy Support:
Fire Prism (Holo-fields/Spirit Stones)
Fire Prism (Holo-fields/Spirit Stones)

Total: 998

Looks good. Only questions would be should one of the Spirit Stones go on the Falcon? I imagine the Prisms are more important though.

I would try and get Spirit Stones on all your transports so they never have to sit still. Eldar tanks must ALWAYS be moving, either to ensure your guys get across the board or to contest objectives late game. Personally I never leave home without SS on everything.

For 60pts, you can get SS on the transports plus a basic Shuriken Cannon for each tank (SS and SC = 10 pts each) Good luck

p14tinum wrote:I would try and get Spirit Stones on all your transports so they never have to sit still. Eldar tanks must ALWAYS be moving, either to ensure your guys get across the board or to contest objectives late game. Personally I never leave home without SS on everything.

For 60pts, you can get SS on the transports plus a basic Shuriken Cannon for each tank (SS and SC = 10 pts each) Good luck

Well, where would you suggest pulling points from to do it? I mean you see the build, and I'm curious of other load outs! :

I am personally not a big Falcon fan. For what you pay for, I would take Fire Prisms or War Walkers with Scatter lasers or Outflank with Shuriken Cannons (they are cheap and rain a hell of a lot of shots). Fire Prisms awesome. I love Banshees, if you do not like harlies use Banshees with exarch executioner +/- Jain Zar she give furious charge plus a strength 5 triskele. For Farseers I would always take Runes of Warding - so that all psychers you face have to roll 3 d6 and all together - nice cause for perils and may save your troops from powers going off. Plus Banshees with a farseer with fortune and doom really rocks. I lilke fire dragons a lot too and really help with taking out big vehicles. Hope this is helpful.