Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Every other chapter of Space Marines that I'm familiar with, with the exception of Grey Knights, use scouts to provide valuable battlefield intelligence to a given assault force. The Black Templars train their neophytes in an apprentice fashion, meaning scouts aren't out there doing any scouting. It begs the question: how do BTs get this intel that every other chapter makes use of?

The Problem ist, that Recon and Intel is totally neglected by GW, because they either dont know their imprortance or its just nothing they can sell (unlike battlefront).


So GW doesnt write much about these.


Bikes and Speeders are excellent for Scouting duties, so most probably that.

A) - the natives down there tell em. Chapter serfs could also provide intel.
B) - who needs intel if he got meatshields?
C) - drones, navy scans, the emperors tarot, etc

1hadhq wrote:
C) - drones, navy scans, the emperors tarot, etc

If im correct the Tarot requires a psycher which templars despise.

Intel for a drop pod assault really just needs orbital scans.

Black Templar kill the heretics first, then ask if they were heretics later.

The Sword Breathren can act as scouts, as mentioned in the codex.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Black Templar kill the heretics first, then ask if they were heretics later.

+1 This is probably the correct answer

GW hates intelligence, they don't seem to care or understand how important it is. The Imperial Guard doesn't even seem to have a dedicated military intelligence branch for instance (the Templars Psykologis' exact role remains unclear), which IRL would be necessary for even its most basic functions.

There's no CIA equivalent in the Imperium either, something that would be absolutely necessary for a decentralized Empire like theirs to function. The Inquisition, which should fulfill this role, comes off more as a special police unit then an intelligence branch.

Each planet has their own police force. The Arbites would probably fulfill most roles that the police can't, reporting their finds to higher powers.

Speaking from a Recce point of view....much of my job (driving down roads until i get shot at, and doing close inspections of decision points) could easily be done from Orbit, with sensors, or from Aircraft (again due to more advanced sensors). On top of this 40k as a whole seems centered on the idea of a pitched battle, where two forces meet in a vague area, punch each other out, and the one that wins gets the prize. This sort of battle requires a great deal of SA about the terrain, and benefits from some on the enemy, but really does not require the detailed intelligence that most modern operations do.

As to other consideration, the lack of Int is amusing, but they really fall flat on their face as to tactica/operational logistics. Everyone knows that ships transport stuff for the imperial navy etc. But actual combat resupply, repair, and replenishment is almost entirely absent.

Harriticus wrote:GW hates intelligence, they don't seem to care or understand how important it is. The Imperial Guard doesn't even seem to have a dedicated military intelligence branch for instance (the Templars Psykologis' exact role remains unclear), which IRL would be necessary for even its most basic functions.

There's no CIA equivalent in the Imperium either, something that would be absolutely necessary for a decentralized Empire like theirs to function. The Inquisition, which should fulfill this role, comes off more as a special police unit then an intelligence branch.

Actually, there's a clade of assassins specializing in intelligence gathering introduced in Nemesis. Can't for the life of me remember their name, but they're basically the NSA on some pretty serious steroids.

Lightcavalier wrote: But actual combat resupply, repair, and replenishment is almost entirely absent.

IG is supplied by the munitorum. You may find the correct way to request this in the 'munitorum manual'.
Engineseers accompany the IG. They may spend their time with repairs. FW did an ARV IIRC.

OTOH 40k works like a movie. Ammo never runs out. Mags are there for show.

Harriticus wrote:GW hates intelligence, they don't seem to care or understand how important it is. The Imperial Guard doesn't even seem to have a dedicated military intelligence branch for instance (the Templars Psykologis' exact role remains unclear), which IRL would be necessary for even its most basic functions.
There's no CIA equivalent in the Imperium either, something that would be absolutely necessary for a decentralized Empire like theirs to function. The Inquisition, which should fulfill this role, comes off more as a special police unit then an intelligence branch.

There is military intelligence, it just happens to be included in the armed forces by default and doesn't feature/require a "special branch". There's reconnaisance vehicles (ground and aerial/space) as well as shipborne scanners and probes - and given how efficient this technology works, in the 41st Millennium, you really do not need more for successful warfare. There's also some secret police (Inquisition), infiltrators (Callidus) or linguistic experts (Dialogous), but generally, when it comes to Mankind's real enemies, undercover operations are not an option. Be it because the enemy is a bunch of xenos or a Chaos cult - either would pose too much of a threat of corruption to the operative, not only potentially falsifying the reports but maybe even turning him against his proper masters. The Imperium is quite simply too paranoid. And as for controlling its own populace and organizations ... you don't need secret agents for that, the Ministorum has its eyes and ears everywhere (Confessors/Hospitaller in the military and fleets, Famulous in the noble Houses), and any faithful Imperial citizen will feel compelled to rat out his neighbor or superior to the local clergy if he believes there's something wrong.

In short, I think Lightcavalier nailed it already.

Harriticus wrote:GW hates intelligence, they don't seem to care or understand how important it is. The Imperial Guard doesn't even seem to have a dedicated military intelligence branch for instance (the Templars Psykologis' exact role remains unclear), which IRL would be necessary for even its most basic functions.

There's no CIA equivalent in the Imperium either, something that would be absolutely necessary for a decentralized Empire like theirs to function. The Inquisition, which should fulfill this role, comes off more as a special police unit then an intelligence branch.

It's probably just the IoM that hates intelligence. The tau get there own scouts, eldar get there far seers. Actually I think that's it. Maybe GW dose hate intelligence probably because it's hard to include it in a table top game. (It dose pop up in some places.)

I thought that the inquisition was the CIA. Intelligence gathering seems to be there biggest jobs. ADmech also seem to gather a lot of intelligence too.

they dont, they just charge at the enemy with their swords...

nomotog wrote:

It's probably just the IoM that hates intelligence.

The tau get there own scouts, eldar get there far seers.

The IoM doesn't waste hate at the intelligence.

It has recon tough as you need it with all these artillery of theirs. It has the taticae who gather info.

Scouts are common.
Intel is gathered beforehand. Scouts provide 'just in time' data.
Thus intel would include strengths and weaknesses of the enemy, positions of defense and supplies, travel routes of reinforcements, range of weapons, firing arcs, strongpoints, etc etc.

The question is who sorts it out? To collect a crapton of data is possible for every race. But intel is worth gak if its not accurate or outdated. The IoM has the tacticae, who provide the intel the ones in charge need.
As most of the supportive persons, they are nearly forgotten in fluff. Anyone care for the truck driver who brought the fuel? No. But the vehicle using up that fuel is shown. Remember Gw almost left out the crew of the vehicles.
Who collects intel is left out like the ones fueling the vehicles and arming them.

For BT, their bases could provide intel and contacts.

"IG is supplied by the munitorum."


Is like telling me that the army is supplied by the logistics corps. I am aware of that. I was asking more along the nuts and bolts lines. Example, do they use an Echelon system or do the Log types just come right to the front lines with stuff, etc.

IN pilots do raids on enemy convoys and bases. ( BL: double eagle/ Dan abnett ). So bases and frontlines seem to have the supplies ferryied to them. How close they dare to get? I'd estimate to the base. The units could distribute it from there themselves.
There is certainly more spread across several BL books, but why do you expect detailed info on the logistics in an environment of "heroes".?

The only source i would suggest IS the "munitorum manual"/GW.

IG intel sources:
Sentinels
Tauros
Salamander scout vehicles
Rough riders
Imperial Navy
Inquisition

Sergeant Majors are my heroes...that is why i care about logistics

Templars are fleet experts so oribital scans usually, and maybe some form of a sword brother squad goes down and gathers info.

Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Premier says that Guard use scouts drawn from standard units. Ratlins also serve for recon purposes.

As for Black Templar i guess they are supported by NOT A MOTHER fething THING! THey bust the codex Astart3es a nasty slap across the face at the population limit. Do you understand how many marines the BT would field? ENOUGH TO NOT NEED RECON! They could space every marine within shouting distance of a large planet and be able to know everything going on. Even under water.


As for the Inquisition it serves multiple purposes. Gathering intel, secret policing, and working to maintain the Imperiums fabric of existence.