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After my searchbar-fu failure...

After many games of Deathwing vs BA I've come to the conclusion that I need another force to mix things up a bit against my friend's BA and IG have been on a list for quite awhile. We typically play 1k but may range up to 2k

Question: Will a fluffyish Krieg army be an even match for a jump Blood Angels army?

What exactly constitutes a fluffy Krieg army? From what I gather, WWI Germany thus lots of stationary guns/heavy weapon teams and a lot of infantry with some minimal tanks thrown in. Should vets be used sparingly or liberally? Valks/Vendettas/Chimeras seem to be out, but what about psyker battle squads? Ratlins? Are they worth taking? Can a fluffy Krieg army be competitive? Also, I plan on using the C:IG not the krieg dex.

As a Krieg IG player, if you want a fluffy list, it's going to be bodies. Lots and Lots of bodies. To the chain of command you're only a number, You dont have a proper name, You are C-875-93, and if your body clogs the treads of a Land raider, then you've one your job. What you'll want to do is take Infantry Squads, a special weapon, but no heavy weapon. Heavy weapons should be in Heavy Weapon Squads instead.

You'll be good to use Vets, one or two squads, and try to have a plan for them from the start, Do you want them tank hunting? Going after Low armor value infantry? Personally i run my vets with a seige drill attached, Yes its an IA unit, but it says it can be used, and i think its worth it, to have a S10 AP1 Large blast Melta when it deep strikes, with the melta vets following in behind it.

Heavy Support, I go with Artillery, Manticores and the like, seems perfectly within fluff to have these large missile tanks blasting away infront of the advancing wave of bodies.

Ratlings and Psykers? I havnt played with either of them, i dont particularly like ratlings, but i think that the psykers look like they could be alot of fun if played right. Fluff wise? Im not sure how krieg looks on them

As for being competitive? I've had mixed luck. I've had games against Blood Angels, where i wiped them out to the man, and only lost a PCS, I've played games against other IG that beame a real slug fest, and only barely lost on a contested objective. And then i've played against Wolves, and lost Everything, whille only killing four Grey Hunters.

Luco wrote:After my searchbar-fu failure...

After many games of Deathwing vs BA I've come to the conclusion that I need another force to mix things up a bit against my friend's BA and IG have been on a list for quite awhile. We typically play 1k but may range up to 2k

Question: Will a fluffyish Krieg army be an even match for a jump Blood Angels army?

What exactly constitutes a fluffy Krieg army? From what I gather, WWI Germany thus lots of stationary guns/heavy weapon teams and a lot of infantry with some minimal tanks thrown in. Should vets be used sparingly or liberally? Valks/Vendettas/Chimeras seem to be out, but what about psyker battle squads? Ratlins? Are they worth taking? Can a fluffy Krieg army be competitive? Also, I plan on using the C:IG not the krieg dex.

If your using the Imperial Guard Codex then your not really playing DKoK...

Now an actual DKoK army using the IA ruleset is not going to be much of a match for BA. Its a fairly underpowered army, mainly because its a fairly old ruleset. A DKoK army is however one of the best looking armies that can be fielded in the game.

My best advice to you or anyone who is looking to field DKoK. Don't cut corners by using other companies models or a different ruleset becuas eyou won't be happy with the way it turns out.

On range - Krieg wins.
On melee - BA win.

Now it all depend's on the situation.

stratassj wrote:As a Krieg IG player, if you want a fluffy list, it's going to be bodies. Lots and Lots of bodies. To the chain of command you're only a number, You dont have a proper name, You are C-875-93, and if your body clogs the treads of a Land raider, then you've one your job. What you'll want to do is take Infantry Squads, a special weapon, but no heavy weapon. Heavy weapons should be in Heavy Weapon Squads instead.

A horde of blueish gray, I like. A contrast with Deathwing is also part of what I'm looking for and they fit the bill perfectly. As far as special weapon teams should I max them out with flamethrowers and melta? I'm thinking since it'll be a footslogging army it'll be kinda slow so lots of heavy support and heavy weapons teams.

You'll be good to use Vets, one or two squads, and try to have a plan for them from the start, Do you want them tank hunting? Going after Low armor value infantry? Personally i run my vets with a seige drill attached

Melta vets, got it.

Heavy Support, I go with Artillery, Manticores and the like, seems perfectly within fluff to have these large missile tanks blasting away infront of the advancing wave of bodies.

Any opinion on the basilisk? How fluffy would a hellhound be or are they worth taking? They kinda seem more second ww instead of the first though.

Catyrpelius wrote:
If your using the Imperial Guard Codex then your not really playing DKoK...

My best advice to you or anyone who is looking to field DKoK. Don't cut corners by using other companies models or a different ruleset becuas eyou won't be happy with the way it turns out.

True, but I do not wish to have my entire army invalidated based on my opponents preference. My main concern with the FW line is the lack of available melta and options in general. It seems like I'm saddled with the special weapon the squad comes with and no option to have a pfist or bolt pistol for the sarge. Browsing around I understand this is one of their codex differences, but kindof annoying at the least.

Brother Coa wrote:On range - Krieg wins.
On melee - BA win.

Now it all depend's on the situation.

An even match like that is exactly what I'm looking for, thank you.

If you want to have massed bodies and be somewhat competitive what about power-blobs?

50 man combined infantry squads with flamers or meltas, sgts with PWs (or PFs) Commissars and Priests? Seems fairly Kreig-esque to me.

I believe the DKoK from IA have FC, so why not a Kreigified Strachan to lead them?

Back all that up with lots of WW1 style weapons like mortars, artillery, autocannons etc and you should have a good Kreig list that can do well against a DOA BA army.

sounds good to me. I think we're going to start at 1k pts, how big a blob should I be fielding at that level? Also... Is a single combined squad 1 KP or is it per purchased squad?

I'll attempt to put together a list when I get back from class tonight.

Never have powerblobs of 50 men. That's entirely too unwieldy. 30 men in a power blob seems to be the magic number, although 20 can work as well. Combined squads all combine into 1 KP. You can even do multiple combined squads per platoon so you could have two good sized blobs. Just watch out for Furioso Dreadnoughts with Blood Talons, since your infantry squads won't be able to do much while it Cuisinarts its way through your men.

Massed troops with big artillery behind them is very, very fluffy. You can do this with either their Forgeworld army list or with the IG codex.

so 30 man blobs it is. I am rather concerned as to where I can get special weapons and Pfists for Krieg though, the $16 for a meltagun is a tad insane.

Maybe something like this?

90 pts Lord Commissar- power weapon, carapace armor

315 pts Infantry Platoon
110 pts Command- vox, PF, Melta (x3), Commissar
140 pts 2 Infantry- Meltaguns, PW
65 pts Special- 3 meltaguns

275 pts Infantry Platoon
95 Command- vox, PF, Flamethrower (x3), Commissar
130 2 Infantry, Flamethrowers, PW
50 Special- 3 flamethrowers

320 2 Manticore
1k exactly.

Unsure of the manticore, definitely want artillery, but I can get 3 lascannon HWT's with that many points sunk into av12 vehicles...

or maybe downgrade the commisar lord to just a standard command squad and go with 2 Autocannon teams and 2 lascannon teams for higher output? Manticores are highly recommended it seems, but I feel like I'm lacking the long range hitting power I'm used to having.

Just get the DKoK weapons set: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-WEAPONS-SET.html

For power fists, look for Cadian power fists from a bits site. It's power weapons that are seen in blobs though, generally.

Let me critique your list a little:
- Don't take a lord commissar. He's cool, but will get singled out and killed. Take a Company Command squad. They can order your squads to do cool stuff. If you get heavy weapons teams, they will prove to be really useful. Regardless, he can still order command squads (including his own) to shoot better against vehicles or whatever.
- Don't put commissars in your command squads. They are only 5 men, and can't join up with the blobs. Put the commissars in the infantry squads.
- Power fists are expensive on units as squishy as platoon command squads. Treat these squads as completely expendable units that can get your special weapons from point A to point B, and maybe issue an order or two along the way.

An ideal power blob looks like this:
- 30 men
- 3 melta guns
- 2 power weapons
- commissar with power weapon
One sergeant does not have a power weapon so he can be executed when/if you fail morale. 30 men is enough to be really durable, but not too many to be unwieldy. Some may recommend 20 man blobs, which is okay too if a bit frail. The meltaguns are there to kill armor, and act as a sort of "hedgehog" to discourage tanks from getting too close. The three power weapons in the squad, along with the heaps of bayonets and whatnot, mean you can win a war of attrition in hand to hand. Well, "win" might be a bit optimistic, but it means your squad will last a while. Power blobs are best for delaying enemy units while the rest of your army fulfills the mission objectives. The rest of your army could be long range fire support to take down enemy targets downrange, mobile units in vehicles to capture objectives, or even delay powerful enemy units so another powerblob can charge a more delicate, important one.

For more on powerblobs, check out Ailaros and his battle reports. He used lists built around gun teams, powerblobs, and artillery to great effect in countless games. Here's his page: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/user/profile/4820.page
Check through his threads and read up on his reports - they're a great read, and I've yoinked the style for my own reports

Ah, for some reason I was thinking the command unit and special weapons unit got put into the blob too. Thank you very much for the critique Brother SRM!

Regimental Command- Master of Ordinance (80)

Platoon 1 (295)
Platoon Command (50)
Infantry- meltagun, commissar w/PW
Infantry- meltagun, PW
Infantry- meltagun, PW

Platoon 1 (295)
Platoon Command (50)
Infantry- meltagun, commissar w/PW
Infantry- meltagun, PW
Infantry- meltagun, PW

Basilisk
Basilisk
Gryphon

OR

Manticore
Manticore

Are the basilisks good deals or should I swap them with the more expensive manticore? Do I have enough here to deal with vehicles at range? I thought template weapons from artillery was generally bad at taking on vehicles, so should I drop something in favor or lascannon teams?

critique appreciated

Ah yea, Ailaros I need to dig up some info he sent me some time ago about foot armies. Haven't seen him around in awhile, but he's brilliant with guard.I'll go through his threads and try to learn a thing or two.

Now, the next question is: Will this list be balanced with this list or will one wipe the other out regularly:

Blood Angels
Jump Librarian
Jump Priest

2 Assault Squad (melta x2)
2 Missile Devastator squads

Massacres are not what I'm after, I'm hoping for close games as massacres are what I got with Deathwing against him and I'd like him to not feel like the game is futile. Any suggestions for him is also appreciated.

So even matchup or no?

Also... kinda second guessing myself after seeing the costs involved. Cadians are roughly $150 cheaper for the exact same list. Nearly a whole week of work extra (yay for being a burger flipper) for the models... decisions...