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Im still very new to 40K and have been playing a friend in some proxy games to get my bearings. He had run IG at me and dominated me. I switched up my list to compensate for it but the last 3 games he has rolled in with Orks. Whats a proven method to beating these guys with Plain SM?

templates, flames in tac squads, and peilding things with templates hurts orks alot.

also do your best to not let the ork player get the charge.

With flamers once they are in range wouldnt I pretty much already be done for?

I think the easiest way is tanks. The usually want to get into base contact to brake a tank. So if you sit back and shoot with various mech you should be all right.

Mistakes people have made whilst playing orks is either not knowing what units can do or getting scared. So maybe I should go through some units.

Nobz are some sort of death star but FNP and 2 wounds can be handled if you shoot ap2 weapons or use some good cc unit or even scouts can by pass the FNP.
trukks, buggies are easy to crack so do not waste lascannons.
Choose which trukk/wagon you take down carefully, usually only a couple should be high priorities.
Lootas are nearly always took and nearly always vunerable. If can get any unit down at the back against them they will go down.

Hope some of that helps.

I dont have any tanks besides rhinos. I used 2 Dreads w/ TL Lascannons last game and my dice rolling pretty much screwed me. What are some of my other options?

Go with the riflemen dreads instead; more shots at orks is better than fewer strong shots at orks. I won't be getting an armor save from either weapon, so more saturation of fire will help.

Things you don't need against orks:

1)Power weapons-we have a 6+ armor save. Use those points for more attacks/bullets.
2)Pinning weapons-orks are fearless when it matters, so pinning does nothing.
3)DCCW-dreads with all guns will get more wounds off before the boyz pile in than one with a DCCW will once combat starts.
4)Melta-the trukks and buggies fall apart if you look at them wrong. Use your bolters to deal with those.

Things to bring to fight orks-
1)Flamers-denying me my KFF save will ruin my day, plus you should be able to get a large number of da ladz covered in hot, sticky fire.
2)More bullets-the more fire you can pull out against orks the better. You want to kill as many as possible before they get to you in CC. If a tactical squad charges a full strength 30 boyz mob, they will drown in attacks.
3)High attack models-you will be in combat with orks and you will strike first unless you have a PF/TH, so kill as many as you can before they swing back.
4)Blast weapons-killing 5 orks in a single shot is painful, so bring a whirlwind or two.

-cgmckenzie

EDIT: some of the ork vehicles will require a lascannon or two to punch into from the front. Having one on your vehicles will make you day go a little easier.

Land Raider Redeemers are nice with their S6 AP3 flamers, if they aren't enough, fill the tank with sternguards with combiflamers, flamers and heavy flamers.

Pinning weapons are thunderfire cannon, whirlwind and sniper rifle. All good against orks(rifle to target nobs, or just use telion to kill a single nob from a mob of boys.

If you will be definitely be charged some boyz then do consider charging the tactical squad in. It will reduce the boyz to st3 and reduce their attacks.

I agree with your points just putting in a little context.

Yes, if you bring 3 land raiders ork players will cry/not play you.

Charge the Orks opposed to letting them charge you.
An ork is Str 3 (4) with Furious Charge, deny them the charge after you take a bite out of their numbers.

All great points. I didnt think about charging into combat, mainly because i was thinking about the 30 models coming at my boys. What do you mean by rifleman dreads? sorry if thats a horrible question to ask.

Shoot the heck out of them and don't let them catch you in the charge.

If your using vanilla space marines then combat tactics can be a real savior for you. The ability to fall back and automatically and regroup is amazing and can re establish your gun line if you have a break.

Rapidfire is amazing against orks.

Template weapons work wonders. A large blast template from a vindicator can take out whole squads of boyz.

Fast things like Land Speeders and Bikes work wonders as long as your not facing a speed freaks army.

I noticed you use Dread with TWL lascannons if your spending the points to do that use the old school TWL lascannon missile launcher dread. Not only can he shoot down trukks and buggies but he can also deal with hordes by dropping missile templates.

Truck1458 wrote:All great points. I didnt think about charging into combat, mainly because i was thinking about the 30 models coming at my boys. What do you mean by rifleman dreads? sorry if thats a horrible question to ask.

Rifleman dread means two arms with TL autocannons.

Orcs are scary at 30 models whether they charge or you charge. However a well placed flamer template and perhaps a second from a sergeant with a combiflamer and you should quickly have them down to 20 or so orks. Now you charge them and you should be around 15 orks attacking your marines with 30 to 45 S3 attacks instead of 45 to 60 S4 attacks. You have a chance to win the combat and because he is fearless you should almost have him down to the magic 12 or less mark. At that point, the orks should be done for.

Handling one ork hoard is not the problem usually it is the follow on orks.

The secret there is to make an ork approach you laterally. Run and/or punch a hole until you get into a flanking position on his left or right. Usually the ork blobs will invariably start hitting you piecemeal instead of all at once and swamping you.

Just to demonstrate what DAaddict just explained:

If 20 slugga boyz are charging your 10 man tac squad, your marines will kill about two of them. The rest has 68 attacks, will hit 34 of those attacks, wound 17, killing about 6 marines. The nob kills another two marines. You lose combat, two marines left.

Now, if 20 Slugga boyz are getting charged, your marines will kill four of them, have 45 attacks, will hit 22 of those attacks, wound 7, killing about 2 marines. The nob kills one or two marines. You win or draw combat, five or six marines left.

So you see, the difference between charging orks and charged orks is huge. I get to feel this more often than I like

So basically lots o' mid/long range shots, Flamers, and no power wepons while charging into combat. I think i can handle that. What HQ's would you guys use?

Truck1458 wrote:So basically lots o' mid/long range shots, Flamers, and no power wepons while charging into combat. I think i can handle that. What HQ's would you guys use?

Well... there are two that are obvious. Take a generic HQ - librarian, captain, chaptermaster so you have the Ultramarine ability to autofail any morale test. This can frustrate an ork because he doesn't want to shoot you up only to see you run away before he gets the charge in.
The other is Vulkan- nothing like Twin-linking every flamer or meltagun ( less important against orks but nice)

Yeah, Vulkan is pretty sweet. The ability to twinlink those flamers is awesome. I've seen that ability alone bring me victory. Try to keep a clear line of fire so you can deny them their cover saves. The Ultramarine ability to flee back out of combat is a great 'screw you' to orks.

Just make sure you use it on the ork's cc turn so that you can return the charge the following round, assuming it's a good idea for you.

Also, a great unit is 10 sternguard in a rhino with a pair of heavy flamers. A very versatile unit, able to drop templatey death out of the hatch, rapid-fire with cover-ignoring rounds once deployed, and get a solid three attacks on the charge. While not as hard hitting as TH/SS Termies, they're more mobile and can be used for a variety of tasks, including the ability to hold objectives if you've taken Pedro for your HQ.

my orks are running 100% against my brothers vanilla marines. its definitely weighted in the orks favour this contest. However 2 main things work for him and i always fear them.

Sternguard
sternguard are always effective if im running a KFF. slightly on the dear side, but unobstructed, reliable, ignores cover shooting is extremely good at whittling boyz away that have a KFF. upgrade them to have combi flamers and you have a very good anti KFF horde unit
the marine killer ammo (AP3) whatever is called is also devastating if Mega armour has been deployed, (but i dont usually use them)
unlike gavin thorne above (whom i otherwise agree with), i think they are better out of a vehicle, and preferably sat in cover. they have the 30" shot which gives them a turn more than most marines firing. i also would make sure every marine keeps a bolter and doesnt upgrade to a flamer to ensure they can use the special ammo. combi flamers should do it when they get close

Rhino blockade
he also equips his tac squads with flamers and rocket. very effective. however moreso he always gives them a rhino. this is a cheap option to give him a few more shots per tur with the storm bolters, and more models on the table, but moreover he uses them in a very good way.
they park next to/behind the marine squads, and the turn before i assault, he'll run them out into the middle of the field, right in front of my mob, and put the handbrake on. that saves him a whole turn while i have to then deal with the rhino ok it gives me a vp, but its a small price to pay for another turn of shooting. i could take them out prior, but that means im busy taking out rhinos, with an often un-shooty list instead of focussing on the marines.
-

Man i was way off in my list, No wonder I was like little blades of space marine grass to him. Alright ill make up a few lists and throw em up here for review. Thanks guys

loads of elite/heavy choices have been chucked into the mix here, and each are likely as effective as each other so list what suits how you play.

What i would say though is follow the ork adage - boyz before toyz. oks win by outnumbering, so try to minimize that advantage. dont buy every toy you can get if it means only fielding the minimum troop marines. id run at least 3 tac squads with flamers and rockets before considering other choices. buld your list from the troops up, not backwards fromt the special units

The cheapest HQ you can get also allows points for more anti horde toyz. dunno how effective a turn 1 orbital bombardment would be actually...never been a victim thankfully!

some may disagree there, but the more elite my brothers vanilla marines went, the more easy i found it to swamp him.

sorry, ill leave you alone now! hehe

No your fine man. i have used Orbital Bombardment 3 times with a total of 0 kills. I cant roll to penetrate to save my life but i can throw one massive number on the scatter dice.

Truck1458 wrote:No your fine man. i have used Orbital Bombardment 3 times with a total of 0 kills. I cant roll to penetrate to save my life but i can throw one massive number on the scatter dice.

you sound like you have the same disease as my shokk attack mek has. average 3 for the strength, 10 for the scatter!

Dirty tricks against orks:

Using telion to pop his power klaws out of his mobs.(Bonus points for throwing in a HF+AC dread after this point.)
Hitting his nob bikers with a unit of TH/SS terminators.
Using an avenger librarian. Ever.
Putting sternguard on the field, bubblewrapped by tacticals.
Sternguard with pedro`s +1 attack aura in effect daring the boyz to assault.
Rhino V`s with a pair of squads firing through the point right as hes about to try and charge you.
Land raiders.
MM/HF speeders.

A good question would be what do YOU have access to, and what does your ork mate have access to/regularly field?

Since everyone else seems to be suggesting you use your wallet to beat the boyz, How about some Typhoons? Great vs da boyz, especially when they have no lootaz. move 12" and fire 2 krak missiles (great for side armor shots on a battlewagon) or 2 frag missiles and 3 HB shots (since frag missiles are defensive weapons), or move 6" and fire 2 kraks and 3HB shots. Great for staying away from trouble and pelting effective fire into the boyz and their vehicles.

Also, familiarize yourself with combat tactics and its shenanigans i.e If the boyz shoot before charging, and you lose enough to make a morale check, choose to fail it and run away so the boyz can't charge you etc. Combat tactics is there for a reason

You can also use CT to do things like use a dread to charge into a combat in support of a unit you need out of combat, and then use combat tactics on the unit to pull out without the orks being able to try and advance.

Or if you get hit by something with low AP, go to ground. At minimum you have a 6+ cover save. Take your casualties. More than 25%? Autofail, fall back and autoregroup next turn.

Truck1458 wrote:No your fine man. i have used Orbital Bombardment 3 times with a total of 0 kills. I cant roll to penetrate to save my life but i can throw one massive number on the scatter dice.

I think I have your good rolls as it always kills things with me. I knew it had to average out.

Seriously do not take him. I wouldn't think of orbital bombardment except for grey knights in apoc. battles.

Im not taking Kantor, im going Vulkan along with a libby with avenger and VOD. I think that works out better lets just hope i dont fail the psych test...

A lot has already been said, so here's a bit more:

Slow them. Orks often rely on speed and momentum, so shooting down, or just stalling their transport vehicles will often buy you a LOT of breathing space for a turn or two.

Forcing leadership. Easier said than done, but the low leadership of Orks is a vulnerability that is devestating when taken advantage of. Obviously you need to cut away to get them to that vulnerable point so you can deny them Fearless.

Close Combat Elite. Orks are good in combat, but they still have a painful time against close combat specialists, and often just crumble at combat resolution.

Naturally, this all differs depending on what you and your opponent is fielding. You're not exactly going to want to charge into a nob squad and try to win combat.

Oh, orks generally have a very hard time dealing with armour of high value and high quantity, and rely on contact to deal with those issues. Particularly, Powerklaw nobs in trukks, and the dreaded Deffrolla on Battlewagons. Thus, as touched on above, if you can stall those, you will have a much easier time.