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This is a continuation from an old post: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/394096.page#top

The classic argument is that a tank shock that is dodged cannot inflict D6 hits because the tank shock has failed.

My counter is this: a tank shock can not fail. No where in the WRB does it say that a dodged ram fails.
It just says that it 'avoids the tank'.
The WRB states that a ram only results in a collision if a vehicle makes contact with the tank. So if the vehicle is 13" away then you are still ramming even though you didn't reach your target.

So while the collision from the ramming can be dodged, the D6 hits cannot.

I'm not saying it makes sense, but neither does an immobilised skimmer that can dodge (and it can).

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Because it's part of the Ram.

If the Ram happens so does the DR; it only makes sense if the ram doesnt happen neither does the DR

*facepalm* Sometimes rule laywering goes too far.

The skimmer has dodged the Ram Attack and no collision occurs, but yet contact was still made for the deffrolla to hit..really?

I would also call BS is a heartbeat on a immobed skimmer trying to dodge a Ram.

Yes the skimmer dodged, however it is still in contact. (says so in the book)

Stunned or immob'd shouldnt be allowed to dodge however there is nothing against it that i've seen.

krourke wrote:
The classic argument is that a tank shock that is dodged cannot inflict D6 hits because the tank shock has failed.

My counter is this: a tank shock can not fail. No where in the WRB does it say that a dodged ram fails.
It just says that it 'avoids the tank'.
The WRB states that a ram only results in a collision if a vehicle makes contact with the tank. So if the vehicle is 13" away then you are still ramming even though you didn't reach your target.

So while the collision from the ramming can be dodged, the D6 hits cannot.

I'm not saying it makes sense, but neither does an immobilised skimmer that can dodge (and it can).

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No, an immobilised skimmer can not dodge.

Errata says:

Page 71 – Ramming a skimmer.
The first sentence should be changed to:
Skimmers that are not immobilised or stunned may try
to dodge […]

Also, if you read P.71 it states "on a 3+ the skimmer avoids the tank, neither vehicle suffers any damage,..."

So neither vehicle suffers any damage if you roll a 3+ with a skimmer to dodge the ramming vehicle.

Which essentially means that the ram DOES occur(for the purposes of firing passengers for example), but no damage is taken by the ram. However, you could argue that the skimmer can take no damage from the Deff Rolla as it is part of the tank shock/ram.

DeathReaper wrote:
No, an immobilised skimmer can not dodge.

Errata says:

Page 71 – Ramming a skimmer.
The first sentence should be changed to:
Skimmers that are not immobilised or stunned may try
to dodge […]

Also, if you read P.71 it states "on a 3+ the skimmer avoids the tank, neither vehicle suffers any damage,..."

So neither vehicle suffers any damage if you roll a 3+ with a skimmer to dodge the ramming vehicle.

DeathReaper is officially awarded 1 internet.

Shame on BlueDagger and email-man for missing this.


As for the original question: The skimmer dodged the battlewagon. Why would the deff rolla still hit?

Yeah.. if skimmer makes the 3+, it dodges the DR.

That's why its not a bad idea to to have the grabbing claw on the battlewagon.

thanks everyone.
I knew what made sense, I just needed some help getting over my hopeful interpretation.

I just played my tau friend last weekend and he made this genius (<-- compliment, not sarcasm) move of moving his piranha's 24" and parking them infront of my BW in turn 1. This effective stopped my BW for a whole turn, and he got a 4+ cover for turboing too!

I still don't get how a piranha can block me from moving 12" forward when it dodges out of the way of my tank shock! grrrr

krourke wrote:thanks everyone.
I knew what made sense, I just needed some help getting over my hopeful interpretation.

I just played my tau friend last weekend and he made this genius (<-- compliment, not sarcasm) move of moving his piranha's 24" and parking them infront of my BW in turn 1. This effective stopped my BW for a whole turn, and he got a 4+ cover for turboing too!

I still don't get how a piranha can block me from moving 12" forward when it dodges out of the way of my tank shock! grrrr

Wait, doesn't the tank move forward as normal? That makes no sense.

No, if you try to ram a skimmer the ramming vehicle stops in its tracks, or wheels.

krourke, you could have just moved around his vehicle, no need to ram him.

DeathReaper wrote:No, if you try to ram a skimmer the ramming vehicle stops in its tracks, or wheels.

krourke, you could have just moved around his vehicle, no need to ram him.

But that doesn't make any sense. If the skimmer jumps out of the way, wouldn't the tank go past it, a la tank shock?
That's what'll happen IRL.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

krourke wrote:thanks everyone.
I knew what made sense, I just needed some help getting over my hopeful interpretation.

I just played my tau friend last weekend and he made this genius (<-- compliment, not sarcasm) move of moving his piranha's 24" and parking them infront of my BW in turn 1. This effective stopped my BW for a whole turn, and he got a 4+ cover for turboing too!

I still don't get how a piranha can block me from moving 12" forward when it dodges out of the way of my tank shock! grrrr

Wait, doesn't the tank move forward as normal? That makes no sense.

It does stop immediately, as DeathReaper pointed out. The fluff explanation in the rulebook is that the crew is so surprised by the vehicle dodging them, they stop. YMMV on how valid that explanation is.

Grakmar wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

krourke wrote:thanks everyone.
I knew what made sense, I just needed some help getting over my hopeful interpretation.

I just played my tau friend last weekend and he made this genius (<-- compliment, not sarcasm) move of moving his piranha's 24" and parking them infront of my BW in turn 1. This effective stopped my BW for a whole turn, and he got a 4+ cover for turboing too!

I still don't get how a piranha can block me from moving 12" forward when it dodges out of the way of my tank shock! grrrr

Wait, doesn't the tank move forward as normal? That makes no sense.

It does stop immediately, as DeathReaper pointed out. The fluff explanation in the rulebook is that the crew is so surprised by the vehicle dodging them, they stop. YMMV on how valid that explanation is.

Now that is just silly. It is more likely that they'll be so distracted that they'll forget to stop the tank, and keep on going. Ever seen a bullfight? You know how the bull keeps on going after the matador jumps out of the way?
That's exactly how it should be.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:No, if you try to ram a skimmer the ramming vehicle stops in its tracks, or wheels.

krourke, you could have just moved around his vehicle, no need to ram him.

But that doesn't make any sense. If the skimmer jumps out of the way, wouldn't the tank go past it, a la tank shock?
That's what'll happen IRL.

Actually, that's not what would happen "IRL," because neither Battlewagons with Deffrollas nor Skimmer vehicles exist "IRL."

Seriously, this is a game. There is never a reason to bring up "real life" when discussing the rules of a game unless that game seeks to simulate "real life."

No GW game makes any effort to simulate "real life."

(back to the original topic)

The way I explain it to Ork players is that the BRB says, I'm paraphrasing, 'the tank stops its movement and no damage is taken by either vehicle'.

Using strict RAW, which is all that matters competitively, you could go ahead and roll your d6 S10 hits if you really wanted to but then they would deal 'no damage' and I could ignore them. Most Ork's nod in agreement and then shoot the skimmer with something else and go about their business.

I'd like to point out, that while the english version of the ork codex is perfectly clear (The tank shock/ram causes the 1d6 hits), for example the german translation is not. There might be a similar problem for the french one.

That is a clever idea moving a skimmer into the way of a deff rolla to prevent it moving.

I'm filing that way in my brain under F for furiously frustrating.

Should come in useful next tourny.

That's what the plank is for. In combination with a grabbin klaw you even might get another round of hits during your opponent's turn.

I fit a plank to my BW for just that reason (among others).
Stop in front of my BW to stop me moving, instead of getting d6 S10 to the font armor, you're getting 6 S10 hits to the rear armour from the Warboss inside...

marv335 wrote:I fit a plank to my BW for just that reason (among others).
Stop in front of my BW to stop me moving, instead of getting d6 S10 to the font armor, you're getting 6 S10 hits to the rear armour from the Warboss inside...

Doesn't the plank only work if neither vehicle has moved more then 12? wouldn't that stop the plank if he moved flat out the turn before?
or em I missing something? I don't play orks so i have no idea.

GamzaTheChaos wrote:

marv335 wrote:I fit a plank to my BW for just that reason (among others).
Stop in front of my BW to stop me moving, instead of getting d6 S10 to the font armor, you're getting 6 S10 hits to the rear armour from the Warboss inside...

Doesn't the plank only work if neither vehicle has moved more then 12? wouldn't that stop the plank if he moved flat out the turn before?
or em I missing something? I don't play orks so i have no idea.

Yap. Can't plank if the vehicle moved 12"+, but I think Garnza just mean he has the plank in case the enemy dodges the Deff Rolla.

Continuing GamzaTheChaos' question....doesn't the plank also only allow one attack? Or is it one model gets to attack? I have the Ork codex somewhere, but I havn't given it a good read recently....

marv335 wrote:I fit a plank to my BW for just that reason (among others).
Stop in front of my BW to stop me moving, instead of getting d6 S10 to the font armor, you're getting 6 S10 hits to the rear armour from the Warboss inside...

Well, it's a toss up. Ramming with a Deff Rolla gives you automatic hits, but you have to resolve those against facing armour, whereas planking would always hit rear armour, but would (I think?) be subject to hitting the vehicle only on 4's or 6's based on the vehicles movement, as you are treating it as if the unit inside actually assaulted.

Teufelhunde wrote:Continuing GamzaTheChaos' question....doesn't the plank also only allow one attack? Or is it one model gets to attack? I have the Ork codex somewhere, but I havn't given it a good read recently....

No. the model inside gets to attack as if it were assaulting, meaning it uses its full number of attacks

+ As well as furious charge during your turn.