Yahtzee Croshaw vs Warhammer 40k

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**Lord of Nonsensical Crap**

So noted video game reviewer has given his opinions of Space Marine...and 40k in general...in rather scathing detail.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/9153-Extra-Punctuation-Hating-Warhammer-40k-and-Space-Marine

Personally, I think he has some salient points. It doesnt shame me to say that yes, much of 40k IS rather silly, and the "grim darkness" aspect gets overdone a lot. But I also feel that he's giving a rather generic lambasting to a game setting which he seems to be familiar with only at face value. Its easy to poke fun at WH40k when all you know are giant tin can men swinging big chainswords at each other, but we all know that WH40k is much more than that.

Not that I'm angry or anything. I still respect Yahtzee's opinion on the matter, even if that opinion this time clashes with my own knowledge of the given subject. What do you guys think?

**LordofHats**

Given that Yahtzee doesn't play multi-player I doubt he'll have any fun with Space Marine, so we should expect him to be unimpressed. I actually find his deconstruction, however rudimentary and simplistic interesting. We all know 40k is a ludicrous setting. That's why we love it. His analysis of Space Marines I think is fair. I love them, but we all know that the Astartes, like so much else in 40k, are an impractical idea and can be quite... dull in personality. Especially Ultrasmurfs. Space Wolves are probably the most 'fun loving' of all space marines. They certainly have more personality than most

**Asuron**

Ehh Yahtzee kinda had a weak excuse for not liking 40k honestly.
He claims that it glorifies war, which if he'd bother to read the background, it actually does the opposite.
Then compares the game to Gears of War, which makes it seem like he didn't really play the game at all.

Also his line on the IG woman confuses me, the only thing I got from that is that the Captain was suprised that a lieutenant was holding out against the Ork horde, not that he was suprised because of her gender.

I don't care if he doesn't like the background, its not his cup of tea I get that, but his reasons as to why are just...stupid to put it lightly.

**LordofHats**

Then compares the game to Gears of War, which makes it seem like he didn't really play the game at all.

Or he did. Frankly I've given up on trying to understand how people can claim the game isn't like Gears of War. It is. Apparently the inclusion of a melee feature and removal of a cover system is enough to make a game completely different from all others that exist.

**Asuron**

LordofHats wrote:
Then compares the game to Gears of War, which makes it seem like he didn't really play the game at all.

Or he did. Frankly I've given up on trying to understand how people can claim the game isn't like Gears of War. It is. Apparently the inclusion of a melee feature and removal of a cover system is enough to make a game completely different from all others that exist.

Because Gears gameplay is based SOLELY around cover based combat and chest high walls?

Space Marine gameplay doesn't even resemble that. They resemble each other in looks only and well 40k had the look first

**Melissia**

Yahtzee's views are basically tainted by his dislike of 40k, which itself is almost entirely based on the tabletop game. Therefor I really can't help but ignore his views.

His videos are funny, but I take them with a grain of salt because I honestly disagree with him frequently about what games are good.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordofHats wrote:Frankly I've given up on trying to understand how people can claim the game isn't like Gears of War. It is.

Game based around cover based combat (GoW) != game not cover based combat (40k:SM)

It's quite simple really, which is why most people don't get it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, I can't post a comment on Escapist because it uses facebook and FETH facebook.

So I'm posting it here instead as I'd typed it up already before finding this out, heh.

"As for the Space Marine game itself, yeah, it's Gears of War."
Right, it's basically Gears of War, if gears of war didn't focus on cover-based combat and had a melee system that didn't suck.

So basically, it's not actually that much like Gears of War, but rather, Yahtzee's somewhat incoherent dislike of Wrhammer 40,000* makes him interpret the game through a highly skewed point of view that immediately makes him dislike it regardless of what is actually there.

* As an aside-- yeah, Warhammer 40,000 is not for everyone, but the tabletop aspect is not the entire thing. In fact, I actually prefer the roleplaying aspect-- coming from a DnD background like Yahtzee did though in my case it was 3 and 3.5. I recommend Yahtzee look at the Dark Heresy roleplay books and expansions. Or if he'd prefer to roleplay a bit more freeform, Rogue Trader has rules for one to essentially play as a roving band of space pirates if you want to. Deathwatch is basically Space Marine in roleplay form, so I doubt he'd like it that much-- it's a bit too hack-and-slash for my tastes. And for that matter, Black Crusade came out recently which dramatically changed the class system to add more variety, so you can play the enemies of the Imperium-- or simply a non-Imperial human. Rogue Trader allows one to play non-humans, as well.

I really recommend Yahtzee look into these excellent PnP rpgs by Fantasy Flight Games if he really prefers roleplaying aspects. Same with FFG's second edition (not the most recent card game/tabletop game style...) Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

**LordofHats**

His videos are funny, but I take them with a grain of salt because I honestly disagree with him frequently about what games are good.

The problem is that most of the time I don't think he is reviewing seriously. He noted years ago that no one cared when he gave a good review. If you look at his listing on Escapist, the reviews where he is positive are his lowest rated and his least funny.

**mega_bassist**

Melissia wrote:His videos are funny, but I take them with a grain of salt because I honestly disagree with him frequently about what games are good.

This.

As much as I love his reviews, I only watch them for the comedic aspect. IIRC, the only video I've watched where he actually liked the game was his review of Bioshock (which I wasn't a fan of). So, to each their own

**Lord Rogukiel**

Asuron wrote:Ehh Yahtzee kinda had a weak excuse for not liking 40k honestly.
He claims that it glorifies war, which if he'd bother to read the background, it actually does the opposite.
Then compares the game to Gears of War, which makes it seem like he didn't really play the game at all.

Also his line on the IG woman confuses me, the only thing I got from that is that the Captain was suprised that a lieutenant was holding out against the Ork horde, not that he was suprised because of her gender.

I don't care if he doesn't like the background, its not his cup of tea I get that, but his reasons as to why are just...stupid to put it lightly.

I agree with this completely. If you take the SM game from a point of view exterior to any type of 40k, then yes maybe.

But if you bother finding out what the game is actually about, then it takes it to a whole new level.

**biccat**

FYI:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/401811.page

**WarOne**

biccat wrote:FYI:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/401811.page

So there is no Video Games nor News and Rumors thread on this same subject?

Somebody get on that right away!

**Rented Tritium**

mega_bassist wrote:
Melissia wrote:His videos are funny, but I take them with a grain of salt because I honestly disagree with him frequently about what games are good.
This.

As much as I love his reviews, I only watch them for the comedic aspect. IIRC, the only video I've watched where he actually liked the game was his review of Bioshock (which I wasn't a fan of). So, to each their own

He likes all kinds of games, but he gets paid to be entertaining, not to tell us what to buy. Bioshock, psychonauts, saints row 2 are the ones he seemed to like the most, but there are dozens were you can tell he enjoyed them, but still finds things to say about them.

This is because most people can still be harsh on the things they like. I know it sounds crazy because you are used to reading things that gamers write, but in the real world, it's ok to like something and still make fun of parts of it. Yahtzee is fantastic at it, but a LOT of people think he actually HATES all of those games.

When he HATES a game, you can tell. He hated dead island.