Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I want to equip my hive tyrant with:
stranglethorn cannon 36" str 6 ap 5 large blast pinning assault 1
Twin linked devours with brain leech worms 18" str 6 ap - assault 6
2+ save
psychic scream
paroxysm
hive commander

debating
replace 2+ save (which i love) with thorax swarm desicator - wounds all non vehicle units on a 2+ regardless, flame template weapon (does not count as firing a weapon)

IN THEORY i could fire my Stranglethorn cannon, TL devourers, AND desicator larvae.... or drop one of main weapons for paroxism if its within melee range or psycic scream if its a low leadership troop then run in and assault and wreck shop as a 5 attack str 6 flurry of tyrant death that damages armour on 2d6+ str.... seems volitile

Swarm lord

-or-

for my melee tyrant
rending claws
lash and bone
2+ save
old adversary
paroxysm
psychic scream
adrenal glands

debating
acid blood
toxic miasma
replace 2+ save (which i love) with thorax swarm desicator - wounds all non vehicle units on a 2+ regardless


Any ideas? I know the swarmlord is vile.. but in games where an opponent says no heroes... pointless also

Melee Tyrant. 'Nuff said.

Two sets of TL brainleech will serve you better than a strangle thorn.


As for melee you need wings or don't bother since without fleet its going to be turn 4 before you see any action.

Only reason i dont like the wings it has to replace a 2+ save
yes movement is nice but so are tactics.... a 3+ save in combat is HORRIFYING compared to a 2+ and I have never played a game where on turn 4 is the first i can assault with my tyrant.... like ever my average is 2nd or 3rd turn.

I was thinking dual twin linked devourers with brain leach worms... 12 twin linked shots is volitile....
I chose strangle cannon over 2nd devourer or heavy venom because
1:heavy venom canon not great at vehicle destruction anyways... really isnt the open topped venom penalty is brutal.
2: Tyranids have like... average effective range of 18-24" that is their glory range..... Hoever for those turns against we will say tau... whos glory range is 30+ inches... some sort of damaging fire would be nice....

I shall proxy both the winged theory and dual devours in some upcoming games thanks for the advice

and aside from no hero rule
why my choice of mellee build over swarmlord out of curioisity.

I like to take a Tyrant with Bonesword/Lash Whips, Scything Talons, Old Adversary and Armoured Shell (and Paroxysm/Leech Essence) with a pair of Tyrant Guard. He just destroys in close combat, although the lack of an invulnerable save makes him extremely vulnerable to power weapons/fists.

well with scything talons he re rerolls 1s.... but with old adversary he can re roll all hits.... AKA misses.. just seems except for points cutting down.. leaving the scything talons on is a waste.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I like to take a Tyrant with Bonesword/Lash Whips, Scything Talons, Old Adversary and Armoured Shell (and Paroxysm/Leech Essence) with a pair of Tyrant Guard. He just destroys in close combat, although the lack of an invulnerable save makes him extremely vulnerable to power weapons/fists.

I like everything about this myself. But even vulnerable as he is that is why you pay for the guard. Let them soak up the wounds for it.

i personally like the idea of winging up my flyrant, and giving him old advisary, and 2 sets of devourers, i mean really if your opponent is shooting at your tyrant with something that negates a 3+ most likely it negates a 2+ as well. as for the tyrant guard, meh, more points wasted on dying models.

Tyrant guard make it easy to give your 200+point tyrant a cover save. That is a pretty big deal and why I prefer the walking one to the winged variety. The concern on slowness isn't all that big a deal depending on the build. He can still provide a paroxysm or old advesary boost early game and threaten objectives or fire bases late game.

I like the winged version if playing a reserve oriented force, but the viability of those builds were killed by GK to some degree.

CushionRide wrote:.... as for the tyrant guard, meh, more points wasted on dying models.

So then are you going to leave out a tactical squad of marines or their Rhino transport because it's points wasted on dying models?

That statement makes little since in the way this game is played. I happily spend 60 points to get 2 extra wounds and 2 extra attacks and a cover save for my tyrant.

OK im still questionging WHY OLD AVERSARY AND SCYTHING TALONS. waste of a usable weapons slot...even if its used to scrape points of top or whatever....

BUT scything talons lets you re roll 1s during the CC to hit rolls....

preffered enemy lets you reroll ALL to hit rolls if you want to... like... I miss on 1s and 2s, re roll the misses...
for gargoyles and their caustic venom on a 6 during the hit rolls it scores a wound, id re roll all not 6 dice for a chance of those extra hits.... Am i right?

Why lose a useful weapons slot for something that is free (scything talons) and have it over written by a 25 point upgrade (old adversary granting prefered enemy to the tyrant and all tyranids 6" around him) if you have Old Adversary and a scything talon slot... arent the scything talons a weapons slot... thats how i see it... AM i wrong about that in any way if so, id like to know cause I currently waste both my weapons slot one being a Heavy ven cannon (most pointless weapon ever invented) and a set of scything talons and my guy has Old Adversary...

Note: only reason i hate my Heavy venom cannon... even when i do get good rolls with it... It is no good against regular vehicles that arent open topped, if i have no vehicls to shoot at i have to use it on infantry... lets see small blast template that can scatter and at most against a good player hit 3-4 guys on a lucky roll that doesnt scatter kill on 2s has an ap of 4 so we will say it can punch through their armor

OR Stranglethorn cannon
Same range
6 strength will wound MOST enemies on a 2+ anyways
Larger blast template
Even if scatters has a MUCH better chance to hit more enemies
and if im not mistaken.... same ap as heavy ven cannon...

Yes against like orcs or light armour vehicle the venom cannon is nice... but so is any MC combat...drop podded zoanthropes, Impaler cannon.. rupture cannon....

I might be mistaken, but did the OP say, he was taking armored shell and thorax swarm? Cause I'm pretty sure you can only have one or the other. Its one of those or just wings. Can anyone else confirm?

Shadowmyth515 wrote:well with scything talons he re rerolls 1s.... but with old adversary he can re roll all hits.... AKA misses.. just seems except for points cutting down.. leaving the scything talons on is a waste.

It basically is just for points cutting-down in my case.

I am OP, I know its the armoured shell for 40 pts or 60 for wings or 20-25 for thorax swar, I was saying the only way i would ditch the 2+ is for the thorax swarm I know you cant have both.

OK im still questionging WHY OLD AVERSARY AND SCYTHING TALONS.

Keep in mind that scything talons works against vehicles without a WS. Preferred enemy does not. Not saying I'd run talons and old advesary, but it is something to keep in mind when kitting out the tyrant or other bugs. And replacing the talons for one of the guns cost a decent amount of points that might be hard to come by. I'd personally find the 15 points for the brainleech, but sometimes points are tight.

As far as the heavy weapon options. Personally I think both the venom cannon and stranglethorn are a bit trash in the new dex compared to brainleech, but they do have their uses. I lean more toward the stranglethorn cause pinning is useful to a nid force, but realistically vehicle suppression is what most nid armies lack and pinning is so matchup and dice dependent. Its why I go with the brainleech on my MCs -- 12 S6 shots, even at AP-, can stunlock fairly well once in range and still are great at infantry killing. I also love the -1ld on the morale check -- won several games just with that modifier alone.

the only reason i lean more towards stranglethorn, is the range.... with a shooty tyrant, 36 range cannon and 18 range brainleach with the option of a 3rd weapon that can fire regardless of if ive fired 2, the thorax swarm-template 6 inches with option to fire all 3.... utility is rediculous with that and the stranglethron cannon also str 6 and if im not mistaken an ap value as well, would be better against vehicles.. sure only one shot but if i dont have vehicles to CC cut through the cannons long range large template str 6 against most infantry and elites were talking wounding on 2+... i mean... thats pretty hardy, yes POINTS are a big cost.. but thats ANY monstrous creature ... i think i calced the shooter at....

170 base
20 cannon
15 blw devourer
25 hive commander

40 2+ armor save
or
25 flame template weapon can be fired with 2 other weapons always wounds infantry on 2+

total 270 with 2+ or 255 with 3rd gun

as a shooter tyrant id need guards preferably 2
those are 65 pts per, 60 base +5 for whip upgrade
thats 130 pts lookin at 385-400 points... for my HQ shooty slot (would only use guards on big point games as they are too pricey for small point)

hes still a MC so mellee is rediculous lol.

If i had some mid-end feild range and fire abilities.... i would easily drop the strangle cannon for another set of brain leach.. but as of now.. my small like 1k-1500 pt army really has very little in any long range battle. within a month or 2 i should be up to a 2-2500 point army where a 2nd hq and more heavy support and elites are needed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lol unfortunatly i REFUSE to run broodlords and genestealers... Yes i know im going to catch flak for this... yes i know the stats and their usability.... I just hate them..... 1 pt less than a marine at base cost... die SOOOOO easily.. ok yea a 5+ Armor save.... how many guns are ap-5 or worse? lol i mean really? not alot. so they just die as easy as gaunts, are basically 2-3 times as expensive and other than str.... same in close combat really i cannot stagnate my hatred for them long enough to use them..... they just dont cut it anymore in my opinion they got raped in 5th edition

id rather run a brood of 30 full upgraded hormagaunts for 300 pts than a squar of 19+1 brood lord at 326 for a raw un-upgraded gene squad... give my enemy 10 more as easy to kill targets that are 95% as strong as the stealers are.... i just cannot do it...

Here's the the thing with the stranglethorn in my experience, the 36" range is nice -- its a big reason why I used them in the old dex instead of devourers -- but you really take the tyrant for his bubble and power abilities, not the shooting or cc. Sure you can and must leverage those traits also -- but what you are really after throughout the game is the preferred enemy on as much of your army as possible; as well as the psychic defense, synapse, Paroxysm, etc. Its the only way a Tyrant is really worth it compared to a tyranid prime.

Often times that means running to mid field, then working your 12"-18" shooting/powers and provding as much of the army with PE as possible. Which means the range on the stranglethorn is potentially a bit wasted. Especially considering it can kill the crap out of your own stuff is used close in to your lines.

As far as the flamer, I just wish you could have taken it with wings. It'd be a worthwhile consideration then. As is its way overpriced on a walking tyrant. The problem is not just speed but how a walking tyrant works in a list. He's rarely gonna have a free shot at shooting a unit, there's more often then not some little gribbly in the way or locked in combat -- which denies the shot as well. As an example -- I played 3 team games in a tournament this weekend and in everygame there's no way I could have used the flamer -- I had gants or gargoyles in front or engaged with the enemy. I could shoot over them just fine with the other weapons on occasion, bot not a flamer. Its just the way it is the majority of the time.

extremely great way to look at the desicator larvae upgrade vs wings or armoured shell

in theory the shell is best choice and the larvae would be the only thing i ditched it for... im sorry wings are just too pricey, for a longer move phase where i can lose my tyrant to power weapons or whatver.... I probably will keep the 2+ untill i can feild something better i really like to use my tyrant with CC as hes a force of doom compared to my other nids... but when thinking about its rare he beats other troops in or comes across an untied troop.... so ill probably keep the shell.

but untill i can get more long range control of battle i cannot get rid of cannon... as my Deep strike trygon prime and my tyrants cannon are all i got... I need SOMETHING to help thin the numbers and offer some return fire.. when i get some more.... distance.... my glory range is 18" ive only lost.. like 3 games with my nids out of all of them ive played i just got back into it like a month ago or so... and ive played probably 15 games 3 losses and 2 draws the rest wins and only like the last 5 have been SERIOUS games where we really declare everythign and go 100% ruled 3 wins 1 tie 1 loss... im happy with that.

Seriously helpful though with the thought i cant template shot as when i do most my target WILL be tied up in CC already... so wings or shell it is (prolly that 2+ shell to be honest i run it now and it has rarely failed me) thank you

Ok See the additional comments on stealers. I wont argue the broodlord, not been overly impressed with them. But stealers, I think your analysis is flawed

Here's the thing that stealers have that hormagaunts don't and why they are well worth the extra cost for me.

--No synapse required. This is important for a scoring unit and an agressive unit. Sure, rage, who cares right? Till they can't stay in cover or on an objective after an assault and instead consolidate off of it.
--Infiltrate. That extra bit of range and flexibility in how they come on board is extremely handy. And its not just being a little closer for an assault (which is still quite big). Wait till you have bigger games and need to fit your army in such a way that they support one another. Much easier to do with infiltrators.
--They do not die as easily as gaunts. That is hyperbole. Surely the extra wounds you get with gants helps but thats not the only factor. They are T4 which is a big deal -- especially with Feel no Pain available. Stealers get to keep their FnP save more often then gants do because of T4. 5+ save is better also, sure it gets negated to most shooting but in cc its often times not negated and will help keep them alive. The I is also a factor despite terrain. WS is also a big consideration for termagants and surviability and is still a consideration for hormagaunts as well. WS>5 is getting more and more common. All that said and told, stealers do have quite a bit going for them in the survial department, espeically when in cc.
--They can hurt vehicles -- hormagaunts cannot even glance without paying a premium. And trust me, stealers are none too shabby at it because they force your opponent to move or get dinked quite a bit. Its why taking 20x3 stealers (with tervigons and hiveguard) is considered such a hard counter to IG. That dual purpose helps nids win games.

I just cant see their super usability... i .... Just so point heavy for something that still dies SO easy im sorry anything without a decent save shouldnt cost as much as they do.. if iinfiltrate with them they cant move or assault that turn... ANY good player should be able to modify their shooting to wipe a decent chunk out of them on their next turn...

So like i said i knew it was coming as people have this loyalty to the stealers... I will try them when i have a need for more points... when i fill my next hq with a mellee tyrant and guards and one more heavy then ill toss em in and try em out... proxy them before i waste more money on them..... being jewish as hell in a gam eliek this makes me very cautious as to what i spend my time money and more time and money on lol.... damn my super jew blood. lol. If they work well i shall invest in a good squad or 2 of them.

My army goal... what i want to try out.. being a statics and heavy planning guy... i kinda have it figured out

swarm the feild with cannon fodder that is still amazing on its own have my str lay in the deep striking and monstrous creatures. leave my vehicle and elites popping to zoans and use my fast attack as mines for orbital deployment and hopefully a few early kills at super cheap points... my current... its so complicated but it has so many strengths and covers its own weaknesses i think well...

2 HQs
1 mellee god tyrant
1 shooter tyrant

6 troops
2 devigaunts
2 hormagaunts
2 warriors

3 elites
2 squads of zoans
1 doom
all drop podded

3 heavy
2 trygon primes
1 tyranofex with the str 10 48" cannon

3 fast
all mines.


I wish to lack singularity
Every thing serves a main purpose and an off purpose
all my big stuff either has the range or deep strike (all btw can not fail in any way with deep strike as they are ALL monsterous creature drops so i eliminate drop weaknesses)
tyrants warriors trygon primes and zoans... ALL synapse
Lots of swarm amounts... means lots troops for capping areas...


easily interchangeable army, need to shave points drop an HQ an elite or 2 a heavy or 2 and a troop or 2 OR cut down on squad size... yet still have the same army just smaller....


I will try the genestealers... proxy them in for a few games later on and see if i like them. They can hurt a vehicle? well yea... so can charging hormagaunts or warriors... i will try them.. i really am against them though so if they surprise me i will be dropping a few troop choices for them.. thank you for the info. actually very helpfull.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:Lol unfortunatly i REFUSE to run broodlords and genestealers... Yes i know im going to catch flak for this... yes i know the stats and their usability.... I just hate them..... 1 pt less than a marine at base cost... die SOOOOO easily.. ok yea a 5+ Armor save.... how many guns are ap-5 or worse? lol i mean really? not alot. so they just die as easy as gaunts, are basically 2-3 times as expensive and other than str.... same in close combat really i cannot stagnate my hatred for them long enough to use them..... they just dont cut it anymore in my opinion they got raped in 5th edition

id rather run a brood of 30 full upgraded hormagaunts for 300 pts than a squar of 19+1 brood lord at 326 for a raw un-upgraded gene squad... give my enemy 10 more as easy to kill targets that are 95% as strong as the stealers are.... i just cannot do it...

I used to hate Genestealers as well, like, I considered them one of the worst units in the game because I was spending so many points on them and they would just die - horribly. However, I realized that I was running them in too small a brood, so I upped it and now they often win games for me. ~15 Genestealers (and a Broodlord if you can afford it) are terrifying. They can wreck practically anything, although they will be gunned down if they are in the open, and the lack of assault grenades hurts. However, use cover (or Venomthropes) to get them a save and make up for their lackluster armour. I also find that outflanking goes a long way towards keeping them alive longer.

Also, if you don't like Broodlords, then give Ymgarl Genestealers a shot.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Shadowmyth515 wrote:Lol unfortunatly i REFUSE to run broodlords and genestealers... Yes i know im going to catch flak for this... yes i know the stats and their usability.... I just hate them..... 1 pt less than a marine at base cost... die SOOOOO easily.. ok yea a 5+ Armor save.... how many guns are ap-5 or worse? lol i mean really? not alot. so they just die as easy as gaunts, are basically 2-3 times as expensive and other than str.... same in close combat really i cannot stagnate my hatred for them long enough to use them..... they just dont cut it anymore in my opinion they got raped in 5th edition

id rather run a brood of 30 full upgraded hormagaunts for 300 pts than a squar of 19+1 brood lord at 326 for a raw un-upgraded gene squad... give my enemy 10 more as easy to kill targets that are 95% as strong as the stealers are.... i just cannot do it...

I used to hate Genestealers as well, like, I considered them one of the worst units in the game because I was spending so many points on them and they would just die - horribly. However, I realized that I was running them in too small a brood, so I upped it and now they often win games for me. ~15 Genestealers (and a Broodlord if you can afford it) are terrifying. They can wreck practically anything, although they will be gunned down if they are in the open, and the lack of assault grenades hurts. However, use cover (or Venomthropes) to get them a save and make up for their lackluster armour. I also find that outflanking goes a long way towards keeping them alive longer.

Also, if you don't like Broodlords, then give Ymgarl Genestealers a shot.

The problem most players have with the Ymgarls is that they are in an elite slot. I for one like 'stealers, I have found them to be very effective. I also find they don't have to shoot, let the gaunts do all the shooting. And then the 'stealers can tie up unit's or harass vehicles. 'Gaunts may not have much survive-ability but they can pour in the shots and with lurk they can dig in nicely providing themselves with a cover save.

I think it's all about how you run them and what you have them doing.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:I just cant see their super usability... i .... Just so point heavy for something that still dies SO easy im sorry anything without a decent save shouldnt cost as much as they do.. if iinfiltrate with them they cant move or assault that turn... ANY good player should be able to modify their shooting to wipe a decent chunk out of them on their next turn...

Lies.
They can move, run, and assault after infiltrating. Although if you don't get first turn they may be in trouble.
They can also do it the turn they arrive when outflanking.

In rules of infiltrating though doesnt it specifically say models the infiltrate, deep strike or come in from reserves cant move or assault the turn they come in? Did i read the rules wrong? or do the genes have a rule that avoids that? cause now they may have some usability.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:In rules of infiltrating though doesnt it specifically say models the infiltrate, deep strike or come in from reserves cant move or assault the turn they come in? Did i read the rules wrong? or do the genes have a rule that avoids that? cause now they may have some usability.

It's only models that arrive from deep strike, everyone else can move, shoot and assault as normal.

Ok see so now they have some worth....i might take a troop of them then. a decent troop size... Other than the infinatly small chance to drop a tank they arent too much beter than hormagaunts are they? I mean point for point at my hormas being 8 pts per with the toxin upgrade and the genestearlers at base... i get 1.75 horms to 1 gene... I dunno maybe over thinking it i will have to proxy em in and try it for a round or 2. see if they provide me enough usability to change my gaming up.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:Ok see so now they have some worth....i might take a troop of them then. a decent troop size... Other than the infinatly small chance to drop a tank they arent too much beter than hormagaunts are they? I mean point for point at my hormas being 8 pts per with the toxin upgrade and the genestearlers at base... i get 1.75 horms to 1 gene... I dunno maybe over thinking it i will have to proxy em in and try it for a round or 2. see if they provide me enough usability to change my gaming up.

Genestealers are susceptible to fire almost equally to gaunts. Hopefully through the use of infiltrate, fleet and terrain you can minimize that. Otherwise a cheap squad of gaunts will provide cover saves for genestealers following up.