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Not sure how to take Monstrous creatures out , for example a trygon becuase if he assaults me he goes first (I5) with 7 attacks, re roll to hit due to scything talons ,all unsavable. I have 2 squads of assault squads with meltas, some powerfists and power swords and lightning claws. Problem is if you drop in close and shoot i can only cause a couple wounds, then he can assault me and essentially wipe out an entire unit without being able to retaliate. any thoughts for an all jump pack army. I know librarian with sword of sang can get 10 attacks but again he goes after the damn trygon if the trygon assaults. Meltas are good for anti tank but what is good for anti monstrous creature??

Meltas are still good against MC due to being S8, but power fists basically. He hits you, you assign those wound to normal guys then hit back. Other than that not much you can do but shoot stuff like the Infernus pistol on the way in, due to the short range of that type of army.

Coordinating assaults with a couple of squads might also help as you get more hits in and each squad loses less at a time.

Thunder hammers, if the MC takes a wound, next round it goes last.
That and Meltas and fists.

For none Jump inf solutions (That would work in a Jump list)
Devs with Missile Launchers
Bikes and Attack Bikes with MM and melta
Storm Raven carrying TH/SS Terminators.

If we're talking Trygons specifically, then the answer is to assault him first.

A Trygon is only I4, so to get to I5 it has to take Adrenal Glands to get Furious Charge. If you've charged him, he has 6 attacks at I4, so you'll likely lose 4-5 pleb marines (who still got to attack because it's the same initiative). Then the Powerfist or ideally Thunder Hammer takes off a wound or 2. If it's a Thunder Hammer, in the next round he'll be striking at I1, so your Hammer will get to go again and finish the job. You'll likely lose the squad, but he'll lose the Trygon and the Trygon costs more.

Failing that, just shoot him to death as quickly as possible.

Run away from trygons. They will not able to catch up, they may need synapse and their shooting attack shouldn't worry you.

You build a balanced list. If you take an honour guard with plasma guns this deals with the threat well. Monsters are huge points drain so should hard to take down and certain things like tervigons can be taken out in cc.

Also against 'nids and with jump packs in general you should gang up on units. If you shoot and charge with two squads against a monster you stand a better chance. Also with their hordes it is likely you have to engage them at close quarters in which case 20 models vs. 20 models is much fairer.

Chrysis wrote:If we're talking Trygons specifically, then the answer is to assault him first.

A Trygon is only I4, so to get to I5 it has to take Adrenal Glands to get Furious Charge. If you've charged him, he has 6 attacks at I4, so you'll likely lose 4-5 pleb marines (who still got to attack because it's the same initiative). Then the Powerfist or ideally Thunder Hammer takes off a wound or 2. If it's a Thunder Hammer, in the next round he'll be striking at I1, so your Hammer will get to go again and finish the job. You'll likely lose the squad, but he'll lose the Trygon and the Trygon costs more.

Failing that, just shoot him to death as quickly as possible.

Considering that he is BA he should have Furious Charge so getting the charge is even more valuable, he so is going to be I5 on the charge and going first with a decent chance to put some wounds on it before the Fist swings. However trading a full assault squad for a Trygon isn't really a good plan, they cost similar amounts (assuming the Assault Squad has 2 Melta + Fist) and the Assault Squad is scoring. Ideally you only want to be assaulting weakened MCs with a couple of wounds left. Otherwise you focus on killing them with shooting, usually melta, plasma if you take it or Missile from long range. Otherwise you sometimes seen BA jumper lists with Vanguard or Honour Guard with Storm Shields, to allow them to take on nasty stuff in combat.

What about a Command squad with JP and 4 Plasma guns?

Would work, but it's very one dimensional.

Librarians on the charge can hope for a 6 to force weapon them down. Or bring honor guard with SS to tie the trygon up.

Most importantly, gang up on it. Shoot the crap out of it when you can, then charge it with 2 squads. Or more if you have them handy. Multicharging a gaunt screen and the trygon will work out too. Focus on downing the gaunts and making the trygon take fearless wounds.

Plasma guns will do in a pinch against MCs, but at equal Str to Toughness it's like shooting standard bolters at Orks, yeah it'll do the trick, but you want alot of shots to make sure.

Give your librarian an honor guard; pack them with storm shields, thunder hammers and a few inferno pistols. A lot of people forget, per the main rule book, that a character is no longer independent in a retinue squad , i.e. honor guard, they become an upgrade character, so your opponent cannot direct attack to the character. You can then deflect attacks from the big beasty to the storm shields. So what you do is shoot the thing with inferno pistols maybe take off a few wounds, then assault, allocate any wounds to the storm shields, and then finish him off with the librarian and thunder hammers.

Depends on your list. If you have the ability to add devestators or typhoons, then I'd do that. High strength, armor ignoring shooting is the best and obvious counter to Trygons and other MCs. If you have to be pure jumper, then you'll have to either rely on a hammer unit (Chapter banner toting sang guard or LC/SS honor guard) or bait (5 man assault squad) and mass shoot then assaults with PF toting AMs and VV.

Gotta be careful also depending on your opponent. Trygons and tervigons can support each other quite well and if you try and take out the Trygon, you may find the gets a much needed catalyst/FnP vs your basic attacks and also surprise support/bubble wrap from some spawned gants.

This also brigs up another tactic -- if you have FC, multi assault if possible into a trygon and termagant and force no retreat wounds. even if the gants are supported by a tervigon, you will still go before them and likely wipe a standard sized unit, giving your side an extreme advanatge at resolution. This is a tactic of opportunity though, as often times a Tyranid player will be protecting himself from such an event

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:Give your librarian an honor guard; pack them with storm shields, thunder hammers and a few inferno pistols. A lot of people forget, per the main rule book, that a character is no longer independent in a retinue squad , i.e. honor guard, they become an upgrade character, so your opponent cannot direct attack to the character.

That's not how it works. Honor Guard are not retinue -- because the Librarian can leave them at any time. Very few true retinues left in the game (Black Templars and Tau I think are all that are left with IC led retinues).

Mr. S Baldrick wrote: A lot of people forget, per the main rule book, that a character is no longer independent in a retinue squad , i.e. honor guard, they become an upgrade character, so your opponent cannot direct attack to the character.

No one forgets that because it isn't true.

Only Tau Empire armies benefit from that retinue rule.

Well, to be fair, he's right about how Retinues work. His mistake is thinking that an Honour Guard squad is a retinue. A unit is only a retinue if it says it's a retinue.

winterman wrote: Very few true retinues left in the game (Black Templars and Tau I think are all that are left with IC led retinues).

Templar do lead Retinues, but if you look at the section near the rules for Righteous Zeal on command squads, it says that they're treated exactly as normal ICs for the purposes of CC. All of the bad, none of the good.

Yeah, and Tau is the one race that needs the ability of retinues the least lol . . .

Anyway, the best thing for you to do is hit him after you've caused him to lose at least half of his starting wounds.

In addition to not being a retinue, a CC-tooled Honor Guard becomes ridiculously expensive. Giving a model the TH/SS combo is 50 points, so HG with 4 TH, 4SS, 2 Infernus Pistols and Jump Packs costs 395 points. You could almost have 10 TH/SS Terminators for that price, and they will solve your Trygon problem rather quickly if they can get into CC.

MrEconomics wrote:In addition to not being a retinue, a CC-tooled Honor Guard becomes ridiculously expensive. Giving a model the TH/SS combo is 50 points, so HG with 4 TH, 4SS, 2 Infernus Pistols and Jump Packs costs 395 points. You could almost have 10 TH/SS Terminators for that price, and they will solve your Trygon problem rather quickly if they can get into CC.

You can just give honor guards 4 meltas or plasmas and deal with the problem quite efficiently.
plasmas would be normally bad for a jump inf unit, but that squad isnt gonna be good in CC anyway.

I take sword as one of my psychic abilities. I attach the libby to a naked assault combat squad and try to get the sword off before I charge, and i only charge when in a priests bubble. I use this tactic on any MC. Kills them dead.

Inigo Montoya wrote:I take sword as one of my psychic abilities. I attach the libby to a naked assault combat squad and try to get the sword off before I charge, and i only charge when in a priests bubble. I use this tactic on any MC. Kills them dead.

I am confused.

Do you mean you will use both the force sword and sang. sword in combat?
If you mean force sword you are then relying on 3 attacks and rolling leadership on 3d6 - I wouldn't count your chickens. Especially against I6 monsters, monsters with inv. saves, lash whip things that reduce you down I1.
Good tactic but it has its limitations.

winterman wrote:
This also brigs up another tactic -- if you have FC, multi assault if possible into a trygon and termagant and force no retreat wounds. even if the gants are supported by a tervigon, you will still go before them and likely wipe a standard sized unit, giving your side an extreme advanatge at resolution. This is a tactic of opportunity though, as often times a Tyranid player will be protecting himself from such an event

QFT, This is the best way I have found to get rid of MC's. direct the majority of the ASM's attacks against the weaker unit and the fist against the MC. Hopefully your dice agree with your tactic and you should win combat and cause the MC to take a ridiculous amout of no retreat roles.

svendrex wrote:What about a Command squad with JP and 4 Plasma guns?

This is the best solution in town. I'd take 2 such squads each of which led by a Librarian w/ blood lance and shield.

Mephisto? Stay in cover (using a normal infantry move action if you want to avoid DT tests). Try to assault TMC with 4 wounds or fewer, shoot the rest off. Or, as mentioned before, get FC & multi-assault lesser nids + a TMC.

But Mephisto trumps all... assuming he passes the SitW test