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So I've been reading up a lot on the tournament circuit and I noticed the ork dual nob biker list just isn't as porlific as it used to be. I ran a nob biker list yesterday at my FLGS and it cleaved through a dark eldar list and another ork list.So what happened? Where did the formerly tier 1 nob biker list go? I'm curious if it just fell out of vogue or if one of the other competitive lists, leaf blower or Draigowing stomps the nobs.

I'm guessing that you are right with the new competitive lists idea, as if you have 2 really expensive squads charging across the field on bikes they are going to attract all of the enemies firepower, so this means that shootier armies like IG are going to have a field day simply through number of shots, and large mobs of Nobz on bikes are difficult to hide, so they are going to get shot. Also, if you look at deep striking armies like Daemons and DOA, due to your low model count, you're going to struggle to fill up the board to cause them to deep strike in certain places or mishap, so there's another weakness. Then you have faster lists, like most Dark Eldar for example. Yes you're on a bike, which means that you're reasonably fast, but there is no chance that you are going to catach up with enemy fast skimmers. I think it's just that there are so many bad match ups for them nowadays.

I would say Nob Biker lists started going downhill with the IG codex.

Weaken Resolve from a battle psycher squadron is pretty much auto lose for a Nob Biker list. Cast, Bikers are ld2. Hit em with a few leman rus blasts, and suddenly your several hundred squad of bikers is running off the table.

Then came the Space Wolves, with the Nob killer, Jaws of the World Wolf and more missiles than you can shake a stick at from their long fangs.

Then came the Grey Knights, with army wide force weapons, rad grenades and hammer hand...

These are probably the most common tournament opponents you are going to come up against, and bringing a list with bad match ups against your most likely opponents is never a good idea.

akaean wrote:I would say Nob Biker lists started going downhill with the IG codex.

Weaken Resolve from a battle psycher squadron is pretty much auto lose for a Nob Biker list. Cast, Bikers are ld2. Hit em with a few leman rus blasts, and suddenly your several hundred squad of bikers is running off the table.

I'd also say Hydras had a hand in it.

The players jumped the bandwagon to IG, then SW, then DE, the GK.

In fact, with Nob Bikers you'll fight uphill battles vs. IG, SW, DE, and GK.

Too much S8 instant killing to them is what happened. feth, I played against a unit of 10 nob bikers at a tournament a few months back. My three psyflemen dreads killed five of them in one turn of shooting.

They only have a 4+ cover save, and that really isn't enough to protect them from getting instant-deathed by strength 8 or higher weapons. So many armies can bring plenty of strength 8 weapons these days, so they arn't as survivable as they used to be. They are probably still viable in low point games, like 1000-1500 points.

Yeah, and also any points that you pump into a Painboy become irrelevant when you are hit by S8 shooting (can you put a painboy on a bike? hmm?)

I'm waiting for people to wake up to the weakness of Battlewagon spam.

The amounts of STR 8 that can be put out there. To prove this point to a local gamer he played nob bikers

2 units of 8-10, ( been a few week back please forgive) I only shot at them with STR auto cannons for pysflemen forcing him to remove whole models, I bubble rapped the dreads behind rhinos, and I mercissly slaughterd them all ( filthy xenos and all that ) in 3 rounds of shooting.

There is simply an effective countermeasure than many people take because it is good in the general meta, as a result the list suffers.

I think it is a matter of the unknown. People were not used to nob bikers didn't know how to deal with them they do now.

So when you think DE and GK are over powered just remember that believe it or not we are still learning to kill them.

MFletch wrote:

So when you think DE and GK are over powered just remember that believe it or not we are still learning to kill them.

Well put. Don't forget about BAs for Orks.

If you put all your points into nob bikers, some armies will tear it apart...

However, I do play Ork biker lists and they're hella fun...

Look at this:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357312.page#2618364

Basically, if you have a squad of nob bikers and other elements that can krump your opponent... have at 'em!

To me, the value of having a Nob biker unit is purely to be a fire magnet for at least 2 turns... by then, the rest of your army should be krumpping your opponent.

whembly wrote:If you put all your points into nob bikers, some armies will tear it apart...

However, I do play Ork biker lists and they're hella fun...

Look at this:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357312.page#2618364

Basically, if you have a squad of nob bikers and other elements that can krump your opponent... have at 'em!

To me, the value of having a Nob biker unit is purely to be a fire magnet for at least 2 turns... by then, the rest of your army should be krumpping your opponent.

I like the Wazdakka list, don't you have a hard time against any GKs or BAs?

I have been experimenting with this list lately. I'm not sure if it's optimal, and I'm still working on tactics.

HQ 1: Wazdakka Gutsman
HQ 2: Warboss, Big Choppa, ‘Ard Armor, Bosspole

Elite 1: 11 Burnas
Elite 2: 11 Tankbustas, 2 Tankhammers; Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole; 3 Bomb Squigs
Elite 3: 3 Bikernobs
1). Power Klaw, Bosspole; 2). Big Choppa;
3). No Upgrade
Dedicated Transport: Trukk, Red Paint Job, Battering Ram, Boarding Plank

Troop 1: 5 Bikerboys; Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole
Troop 2: 5 Bikerboys; Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole
Troop 3: 5 Bikerboys; Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole
Troop 4: 4 Bikersboys
Troop 5: 10 Shootaboys
Dedicated Transport: Trukk, Red Paint Job, Battering Ram
Troop 6: 3 Meganobs
1). Kombi-Rokkit; 2). Kombi-Scorcha; 3). No Upgrade
Dedicated Transport: Trukk, Red Paint Job, Battering Ram, Boarding Plank

Fast Attack 1: 3 Warbuggies, 3 Twin-Linked Rokkits

The Tankbustas and Burnas get into the dedicated transports; the nobbikers are for the extra transport and to give the trukks cover.

you cant take transports if you take nob bikers.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

thunderingjove wrote:I'm waiting for people to wake up to the weakness of Battlewagon spam.

Care to elaborate on this since wagon spam is seen as the most powerful build.

Their main problem is that every army can easily counter then in competitive builds, some armies have units or models that can "one time" a unit of nob bikers, like mephiston.

I retired mine because all the tournaments have multiple objective missions.

Sure I can nail primary nearly every time but I cant be everywhere at once and a majority of tournaments forbid 1 unit holding multiple objectives. I noticed my battle scores were good but because I wasnt getting the 2nd or 3rd objective it was like scoring ties.

Its even worse now that all the local tournaments adopted multiple objectives that give more battle points the more you complete. This is obviously a rule to punish deathstar type armies, so instead I started up space wolves and will bring the ruckus when they are done being painted, hopefully they dont come up with some "no space wolf" policy...

I often run a small unit of nob bikerz instead of a bw with nobz. Either the S8 stuff is busy with stopping battlewagons, or the nobz take enough shots to make sure the battelwagons get to the enemy unharmed. The magic words are target saturation. You basically trade in the option of having a warboss/ghaz with your burnaz for a mobile and tougher nobz unit.

Simply put, bad matchups became more prevalent. It was way before IG as well.

The Space Marine codex really killed them when the advent of cheap TH/SS Terminators. To add more salt to the wound, throw in Vulcan. As SM were (are) a common army, Nob Bikers just were not overly points efficient.

Then, IG entered the mix. Then SW, BA and finally GK (hell, even DE with all the S8 and mass poison shooting). All of these codexes can reliably handle Nob Bikers in a more points efficient manner.

MFletch wrote: So when you think DE and GK are over powered just remember that believe it or not we are still learning to kill them.

Killing GK is easy - numbers. My main force now is a GK force and the armies I have the hardest time with are horde armies. (that said one unit of purifiers can usually wreck a horde)

You can run a pretty decent list involving nob bikers at lower points. Try this one.

Warboss on bike w/ pk, cybork & bosspole.

kff mek.

5 lootas.

5 lootas.

8 diversified nob bikers.

20 slugga boyz w/ pk nob & bp.

19 slugga boyz w/ pk nob & bp.

bw w/ rolla, big shoota, plates, and rigger.

bw w/ rolla, big shoota, plates, and rigger.

Should be somewhere around 1500 i think.

2000 Volts wrote:

MFletch wrote: So when you think DE and GK are over powered just remember that believe it or not we are still learning to kill them.

Killing GK is easy - numbers. My main force now is a GK force and the armies I have the hardest time with are horde armies. (that said one unit of purifiers can usually wreck a horde)

I know, you and every other GK player knows you have that weakness. Which is my point you may not be called over powered if you keep dying to orks.

Yes, purifiers are pretty mean.

IG killed of Nob Bikers, as Regular Bikers and Boyz handled TH/SS termies just fine.

However it was hard to compete with rerolling cover saves vs Massed melta spam, Manticore fire, Lascannons, Weaken Resolve.

I actually had a decent go with them last tournament I went to which would have been in May, shortly after the Grey Knights came out. They do fine against the non-shooting heavy lists, but as others have remarked, the sheer amount of shooting can absolutely destroy them. I must have greatly pleased the dice gods, as I made more saves then I had any right to in most games, but overall they are a unit with a giant target on them yelling for people to shoot them.

I still enjoy my Ork bikers, I just quit running the nob's. Just fill out the whole list with wazdakka, reg bikes, and a few deffkooptas with buzzsaws. Spread out to take the smallest amount from large templates and try and stay out of LOS as much as possible. Nobz are great, but just not good against the new flavors of the week.

Simply put... any army with high volume of fire is bad for Nob bikers (IG, Venom spam, Tau, etc...).

However, that doesn't mean you'd auto-lose... you'd just need to be moar kunnin!

I was able to take down shooty armies like those a with at 8-man Nob biker unit and rest with trukk spam/boyz and three green barons.

Because Nob bikers are still nortorious... nah... they're still INFAMOUS!, the best use of Nob bikers is to design a two prong army... one unit of Nob bikers to take all the attention, and the rest of the army do the krumping.

I've had success with a list like the following:
2000 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster

HQ: Warboss
1 Warboss ((C:Orks, pp. 32 & 97); Unit Type: Bikes; Stikkbombs; Attack Squig; Cybork Body; Warbike; Slugga; Dakkagun; Power Klaw; Furious Charge; Independent Character; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)

HQ: Big Mek
1 Big Mek ((C:Orks, pp. 34 & 97); Unit Type: Infantry; Mek's Tools; Kustom Force Field; Burna; Furious Charge; Independent Character; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)

Elite: Lootas
5 Lootas ((C:Orks, pp. 43 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Deffguns; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)

Elite: Lootas
5 Lootas ((C:Orks, pp. 43 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Deffguns; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)

Elite: Lootas
5 Lootas ((C:Orks, pp. 43 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Deffguns; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)

Troops: Nob Bikers
1 Nob Bikers ((C:Orks, pp. 34 & 98); Unit Type: Bikes; Count as Troop Troops; Cybork Body; Warbike; Dakkagun; Feel No Pain; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Painboy ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Dok's Tools; Cybork Body; Warbike; 'Urty Syringe; Dakkagun)
1 Nobz (Warbike; Cybork Body; Slugga; Dakkagun; Power Klaw)
1 Nobz (Warbike; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Slugga; Dakkagun; Power Klaw)
1 Nobz (Warbike; Cybork Body; Slugga; Dakkagun; Big Choppa)
1 Nobz (Warbike; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Slugga; Dakkagun; Big Choppa)
1 Nobz (Warbike; Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner; Slugga; Dakkagun; Big Choppa)
1 Nobz (Warbike; Ammo Runt; Cybork Body; Slugga; Dakkagun; Big Choppa)
1 Nobz (Warbike; Cybork Body; Choppa; Slugga; Dakkagun)

Troops: Boyz (Big Mek's Ride)
10 Boyz ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Bosspole; Slugga; Power Klaw; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota; Ramshackle)

Troops: Boyz
11 Boyz ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Bosspole; Slugga; Power Klaw; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota; Ramshackle)

Troops: Boyz
11 Boyz ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Bosspole; Slugga; Power Klaw; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota; Ramshackle)

Troops: Boyz
11 Boyz ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Bosspole; Slugga; Power Klaw; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota; Ramshackle)

Troops: Boyz
11 Boyz ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Choppa & Slugga; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Boyz Nob ((C:Orks, pp. 40 & 100); Unit Type: Infantry; Bosspole; Slugga; Power Klaw; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!)
1 Trukk ((C:Orks, pp. 41 & 100); Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota; Ramshackle)

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas
1 Deffkoptas ((C:Orks, pp. 48 & 101); Unit Type: Jetbikes; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1; Buzzsaw x1; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Mob Rule; Scouts)

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas
1 Deffkoptas ((C:Orks, pp. 48 & 101); Unit Type: Jetbikes; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1; Buzzsaw x1; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Mob Rule; Scouts)

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas
1 Deffkoptas ((C:Orks, pp. 48 & 101); Unit Type: Jetbikes; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1; Buzzsaw x1; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Mob Rule; Scouts)