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Been toying with how to get this to work, while I feel this is a good start, maybe things can be done better:

CCS w/ 2x Meltagun, Regimental Standard, Chimera 140
CCS w/ 2x Meltagun, Regimental Standard, Chimera 140

Platoon (625)
PCS w/ 3x Meltagun, Chimera 115
Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera 115
Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera 115
SWS w/ 3x Meltagun 65
SWS w/ 3x Meltagun 65
HWS w/ 3x Autocannon 75
HWS w/ 3x Autocannon 75

Platoon (625)
PCS w/ 3x Meltagun, Chimera 115
Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera 115
Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera 115
SWS w/ 3x Meltagun 65
SWS w/ 3x Meltagun 65
HWS w/ 3x Autocannon 75
HWS w/ 3x Autocannon 75

Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma Sponsons 230
Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma Sponsons 230
Total: 1990

Some quick totals:
8x Chimera
6x Mobile scoring units
6-8x Deployment zone scoring units
22x Meltaguns
16x Autocannons
8-10x Plasma Cannons (depending on movement)

Description:
What you have here is an army that can split in a few ways. The Chimeras can advance either all together or in groups of four. Alternatively, they can all sit back and contribute to the shooting if you simply outgun them (which is also benefitted by the Regimental Standards and addition of Bring it Down! orders). Other than that, you have the ability to bubble-wrap all or parts of your army. You have the ability to rove out forward with your scoring units as needed.

Weaknesses:
I'm still not sure if the limiting range can be an issue. The majority of the shooting is at the 36" range. Autocannons go out to 48" and the Meltaguns are 6-12" to get effective. I have very little ability to get out there and reach a unit at a distance as I like to with my Stormtroopers.

Personally, and I am by no means a veteran Guard player, this doesn't really work.

You make a good point re the melta guns - they are short range weapons that need to be right next to a tank to be effective. You have a mech army that wants to burn it forwards but when you get there you'll kill a couple of tanks then die horribly! Likewise, if you sit back and shoot you haven't got enough guns, which are all at BS3 anyway, to really kill that much.

I would decide whether you want to be gun line or mech - with mech being the preferred choice on Dakka from what I've read. The mech armies I've seen have 6 squads of veterans in chimeras which are a lot scarier. Have a look around the forums for some advice from those wiser than me...

The way I see it is you have a hybrid intention but executed poorly.

The SWS are the odd units out, seeing as they have no ride and short range weapons. If they footslog it to pop some tanks, they'll die a horrible death as they're only 6 T3 5+ models with poor leadership.

Other than that, you have 8 chimeras that will remain stationary almost all game to make use of the autocannon (every turn you move wastes the autocannon's potential), and as such, I'm not a fan. Mech elements should be mobile, and packing special weapons only will enable you to not only stand a chance against assault armies (hitting on 4+ or 6+ if you went cruising instead of auto-hit) while still being able to pour out plasma/melta if you moved under 6".

The HWS are also meh in such a list. There's too little foot models to make this an effective hybrid. Any anti-infantry weapons with enough range will be hitting them on T1-T2 if most of your chimeras remain intact. Being only T3, they insta-die to S6 which is found in abundance in a lot of armies.

I'll say it again, I don't like sponsons on russes. They cost a lot and force you to sit still to maximise their potential. By moving, you limit yourself to using only one of them, and 40pts is a steep price to pay for a single shot every turn if you do move. Being mobile is one of the best defenses against fast assaulty armies. I used to run sponsons on all my russes, but after dropping them, I've never looked back. It also makes your tanks less of a "SHOOT ME NOW" target.

Your CCSs should have maxed special weapons to take use of their BS4. The standards are meh, especially if you have meltaguns. The CCSs want to stay back and babysit the HWS, but the meltaguns scream "Drive faster!". If you want them to babysit, keep them as just the standard plus a heavy weapon, or a longer range special weapon. Otherwise, drop the standard and go 4x melta or 4x plasma and blow stuff up.

Umm... Guys... The Special Weapon Squads take the autocannon chimeras, while the infantry squads combine an provide a buffer for the hws.

Jamumuls: so six vets are scary, but six Melta units for much less points but bs3 means I need help. I don't follow how you made that leap.

Blacksails: does how the transports are used change your opinion? I'm really unconcerned by the russes getting targeted as they'll have a large buffer and are hard to kill at range.

I'm a little confused by this...

Umm... Guys... The Special Weapon Squads take the autocannon chimeras, while the infantry squads combine an provide a buffer for the hws.

Are you saying the chimeras have autocannons and the infantry squads are naked? If so, that's illegal. If not, carry on. If you plan on blobbing, I highly recommend a commissar so they actually perform their duty in protecting your HWS. Otherwise they'll just get swept after a single round of combat and your HWS will be dead in no time.

I'd just be worried about having your SWS start outside the chimeras, as you'll be going second exactly 50% of the time (unless facing an opponent with manipulation of the first dice roll), in which case your SWS have a very real risk of dying before even getting in the chimeras.

Its an interesting take on mech, and by all means, give it a shot. I'm of the camp that mech=vets (or mass infantry platoons meched up) and foot=power blobs.

The rest of what I said I still maintain. Your CCS are confused.

I love russes and AV14, but watch out for Dark Eldar, as their mass Dark Lances will make a mockery of your 230pts tanks in no time at all.

he's saying the infantry squad's chimeras will be ridden by the special weapons squads. Not illegal, although the SWSs can't deploy inside the chimeras.

I was referring specifically to this bit:

take the autocannon chimeras

Which implies the chimeras have autocannons, which is illegal. I would love it, but sadly, illegal.

No, it was implying that I would use the Chimeras bought with the Autocannon Infantry Squads, albeit with less writing.

On the subject of CCS load-outs, I'm going to disagree. Four special weapons, especially if they are Meltaguns, is overkill. Nearly every competitive marine army reliably depends on two in a squad at BS4, why do I need to pay 20 points more for the same effect?

Dark Eldar already have a very hard match vs Imperial Guard. If they are really going to commit all their Dark Lances to the Leman Russes, I'll gladly take that as even my Multi-Lasers (let alone my plethora of Autocannons) can make very short work of their army. I have no actual need for AP2 against that army and will gladly have my Russes soak up that shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hopefully this helps make things a bit more clear, here is one example of a possible deployment in a Pitched Battle:

Fearspect wrote:

On the subject of CCS load-outs, I'm going to disagree. Four special weapons, especially if they are Meltaguns, is overkill. Nearly every competitive marine army reliably depends on two in a squad at BS4, why do I need to pay 20 points more for the same effect?

The reason most armies depend on two melta in a squad is because they can only take one or two. If more armies had the option to take four special weapons, I'm sure everyone and their dog would use it. Besides, if you take three, you're almost guaranteed to hit with two, which will reliably kill mostly anything. Two melta guns still suffer from a significant chance of hitting with only one, and if you pen, you have a 50% chance of killing something. With three, your chances increase significantly, as well as being able to ping more wounds off MCs and elite high armour save squads. For ten points each, I'd grab four for each CCS.

You should get a commissar for your 20-man blobs though. Without them, any assault unit will sweep them in one turn.

Okay, Blacksails, what do I drop to add 2x Meltaguns to each CCS, 1x Meltagun to each PCS and 2x Commissars? The total is 130 points.

If I'm concerned about a frontal assault coming in, I don't have to deploy them as a combined squad and can instead have two separate Infantry Squads. Them being wiped out in combat is a bonus as the assaulting unit is then left out in the open to be shot some more. As always, your deployment should match the kind of army you are facing. If I am worried about wolf scouts, or outflanking Genestealers, for example, I think you can clearly see that I have the room in my deployment zone to tighten up my delployment.

Additionally, it is going to be a rare situation where that unit is getting assaulted without me being able to get Chimeras out in front of them to slow things down.

I still think your CCS has a weird loadout. A standard should be kept near the foot sloggers, but the melta needs to get to 12". Wouldn't the CCS just be better off with a heavy weapon if their sitting back with the foot dudes? Or dropping the standard for a meltagun and drive around blowing stuff up?

Try it out without the commissars, I've just never been a fan of the 'speedbump' philosophy. There's certainly enough dakka in the list. I guess I can't work out in my head to play with gunline elements as I play either full mech or full assault foot, but you seem to have a plan.

I just think its a bit of a waste not giving your BS4 guys all the special weapons they can take. That being said, I normally run my PCS with 3x melta, so that's fine in my books. Whenever I've shot my CCS with 4x melta, I have never once thought "Wow, that was a little overkill". Four melta guns at BS4 will kill just about any vehicle dead, while two melta guns is more of a gamble. YMMV.

Well, just take a look at that one deployment I posted. If you're travelling 12" a turn, you still have your whole army in range of the standards, if moving 6" they're in range for 3-4 turns. More importantly, the Standards will always be near the Chimera groups, helping to prevent pinning/fleeing when they inevitably get destroyed.

Fearspect wrote:Well, just take a look at that one deployment I posted. If you're travelling 12" a turn, you still have your whole army in range of the standards, if moving 6" they're in range for 3-4 turns. More importantly, the Standards will always be near the Chimera groups, helping to prevent pinning/fleeing when they inevitably get destroyed.

Fair enough, never really thought of using the standards to keep the chimera squads intact after being cracked open. I started writing obituaries for all the guardsmen the moment they're forced to leave the chimera.

I'm curious to see how this army does.

Fearspect wrote:Well, just take a look at that one deployment I posted. If you're travelling 12" a turn, you still have your whole army in range of the standards, if moving 6" they're in range for 3-4 turns. More importantly, the Standards will always be near the Chimera groups, helping to prevent pinning/fleeing when they inevitably get destroyed.

Still a waste to put Standards in a Chimera. If it gets blown up with a SWS, lets be positive and think only 3 get killed. A re-roll to make Ld 4 doesn't make it any easier or likely. The Standard is only a 12" range, so if you move 12", your out of range in one turn for the troops your leaving behind, 2 turns max if you move 6". That is simple math... how you get 3-4 turns is beyond me.

To be frank, as wonky of a set up as your trying to pull off with dedicated transports and troops trying to mount up in game, I am starting to feel your better off just giving your PIS Melta guns instead of ACs and actually starting them off in the Chimeras. Those SWS could be Lascannon HWSs. Drop the Plasma sponsons and that is 300pts... if you got 15pts more you could have 3 LC HWSs... if not, you have 2 and you have points to get another AC HWS and fill out the CCS and PCS special weapon slots. Your list is still desperate for long range AT, and this solves that problem to an extent. You still have 8 Chimera, just use the single Melta guys as a screen infront of the CCS and PCS squads... or vice versa. Whatever really works for you. now your tanks can actually move up with your Chimeras and be..well, tanks. Besides, a LRBT that doesn't move is a dead LRBT.

There is a reason that most people solve this problem by using 3 Vendettas. Then you can put 3 Melta SWS/PCSs in 3 Vendettas. You now have your long range AT covered, you have an option for a half-way decent suicide drop if needed, and incredibily mobile scoring units.

Sure... your kinda throwing away your HQ slots because with that many HWSs in back and using Orders to issue 'Bring it Down!' to make them TLed would be hot. Hell, Creed and Kell would be incredibily effective. But I think you need to do what your doing (even though I agree with Black that they should have 4x Meltas) because your Chimera troops lack that melta threat.

To be honest, everything I see here can work in a pretty base concept.

I see weak points in the Heavy Weapons teams and Leman Russes though. The Plascutioners will put out mucho plasma death but it can only focus one target at a time and will pretty much be overkill save for a unit of Paladins. The Autocannon Heavy Weapon teams seem underwhelming when for the price of 1 you can get a Hydra. Sure you lose out on 2 shots but your gaining twin linked goodness. This isn't to say that the Heavy Weapons teams are a fault for the list...I just think you can get more in other areas.

With the above said, I would propose 3 changes:

1) Trade in the Leman Russes for Sentinels with Plasma Cannons.

2) With left over points take 3 Hydras to get your Autocannon fix.

3) Drop the Standards because, let us just be honest and know that they're not going to get you much mileage out of whatever dies. Use those points to upgrade the Autocannon Heavy Weapon Teams to Missile Launchers.

You would gain the ability to put fire where it is needed, maintain flexibility and increase the threat coming from your weapons teams...that's just my take.