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1) Since a Weirdboy has to make his Psychic Test before determining which power he will even use, can the Aegis even affect him? The test will be made before the Weirdboy can target a model with the Aegis, so I doubt there is some retroactive affect. But if it does affect the Weirdboy's Leadership:
2) How does the -1 interact with the Mob Rule? A Mob with more than 10 Orks in it counts as having a Leadership equal to the number of Boyz UP TO 10. If the Aegis does cause a -1 Modifier to a Mob of 11 or more, is it applied to the 11 or the 10? I would think it would change the 10 to a 9. Thoughts?

1)It does not affect the weirdboy because he cannot target the Aegis until after he has rolled the psychic test. You cannot retroactively change die rolls.

2)You cannot have a stat higher than 10. Run the modifier off of 10.

-cgmckenzie

Ghenghis Jon wrote:1) Since a Weirdboy has to make his Psychic Test before determining which power he will even use, can the Aegis even affect him? The test will be made before the Weirdboy can target a model with the Aegis, so I doubt there is some retroactive affect. But if it does affect the Weirdboy's Leadership:

Well Aegis only works when you attempt to target a model/unit with the Aegis rule you get the penalty on the psychic test. But the weird boy has specific rules that he rolls before any target is made.

Since there is no initial target, you have no penalty.

2) How does the -1 interact with the Mob Rule? A Mob with more than 10 Orks in it counts as having a Leadership equal to the number of Boyz UP TO 10. If the Aegis does cause a -1 Modifier to a Mob of 11 or more, is it applied to the 11 or the 10? I would think it would change the 10 to a 9. Thoughts?

You mean for a weird boy joined to a mob of orcs? Well, it'd be leadership 10 (mob rule and maximum characteristic value) - 1 (modifier) = 9. Fearless doesn't mean you auto-pass, though as Fearless only applies to Morale and Pinning tests, not Psychic and Leadership tests.

You have LD 10, as you are using the mobs numbers in place of your usual LD.

The Aegis Imposes a -1.

You then again choose to use the number of models in the squad in place of your now-altered LD of 9, as it says you may ALWAYS substitute your ld for the number of Boyz in the squad.


I'd say you still get the 10, but it's always possible that i'm wrong

If the Aegis doesn't affect the Weirdboy Psychic test in the first place, then the modified Ld value is a moot point and purely academic. Other than Psychic Hood, are there any other ways that Gray Knights can fiddle with a Weirdboy?

LD can not be any higher than 10 after all calculation has been done, not somewhere in between. So in a mob of 30 orks + weird boy, it's leadership would be 31-3 = 28 -> 10.

Ascalam, it does not work that way. For example there is no way to get around PBS ability, as all modifiers would apply to either value, makeing it ld2 again after you switched numbers.


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Ghenghis Jon wrote:If the Aegis doesn't affect the Weirdboy Psychic test in the first place, then the modified Ld value is a moot point and purely academic. Other than Psychic Hood, are there any other ways that Gray Knights can fiddle with a Weirdboy?

Well, he's a psyker. What doesn't fiddle with psykers in the GK codex?

Personally, I think his Ld would be 10 and then reduced. This is due to a question in the FAQ:
Can a Weirdboy's Leadership be increased to more than 10 by the Mob Rule?
No, it can be increased, but only up to a maximum of 10.

Happyjew wrote:Personally, I think his Ld would be 10 and then reduced. This is due to a question in the FAQ:
Can a Weirdboy's Leadership be increased to more than 10 by the Mob Rule?
No, it can be increased, but only up to a maximum of 10.

True, but it never says that you have to call Fearless BEFORE the Aegis comes down. So, so long as you call Mob Rule after Aegis, you get 10.

Is this really turning into a MTG style timing discussion? Haven't seen that happen since third edition personally. (If only I had an interupt I could stop the ork rule from coming into play at all)

Forbino wrote:Is this really turning into a MTG style timing discussion? Haven't seen that happen since third edition personally. (If only I had an interupt I could stop the ork rule from coming into play at all)

Yeah basically. I asked more or less the same question a while ago, and theres no clear view. I really hope someone at GW reads this forum and FAQs this one!

shouldn't modifiers be added at same time? If there's timing issues, then there's issues with modifiers in vehicle damage table.

for example: melta shoots a glancing hit on a rhino. Rolls a 6, +1 for ap1.. can't go over 6, -2 comes out as 4.
or rolls 1, -2 for glance, still 1 then +1 for ap1 = 2
makes absolutely no sense.

And even tho it's pointless to argue aegis vs weirdboys ld, it still should be 10 if there's 11+ models in the mob and you only reduce 1.

no FAQ needed

Thunder, you got me thinking here, yes all Modifiers should be applied at once, to take from your example Glancing + AP1 + D6 (roll of 6) would be -2 + 1 + 6 = 5. Now I will say this in regards to Aegis the Weird Boy wouldn't be affected but in theory lets say he is, there is but 1 modifier to LD value in this equation the -1 from Aegis, Mob Rule simply states that a unit may choose to replace it's LD value with the size of the unit which no characteristic can be higher then 10 therefore 10< = 10 from there you apply modifiers to the LD value which in this case is -1

Or that 15 models in a mob give ld of 15 -1 = 14. And that cannot be higher than 10.. so it's 10?
There's lots of ways to mess around with the timing. Which is why my recommendation is to do all the modifiers in any situation first, then see what the total is and reduce it(or increase it if negative) to match the BRB.

I see no way of meshing this up even with thoughts of timing issues, here is why.

Ork Weirdboy is called upon to make a LD and must choose, Standard LD or Mob Rule? He chooses Mob Rule, count models in unit and determine that unit is 10+ models LD is 10. Receive modifiers in this case a -1.

The rules are quite clear on the fact that with very few exceptions (Attacks and vehicle armour) no stat may ever be more then 10, this means that when counting for Mob Rule or Ramming Strength once you hit 10 you can still count if you want but the stats will not change to be higher then 10.

Thunder555 wrote:for example: melta shoots a glancing hit on a rhino. Rolls a 6, +1 for ap1.. can't go over 6, -2 comes out as 4.
or rolls 1, -2 for glance, still 1 then +1 for ap1 = 2
makes absolutely no sense.

Why do you think the result on the damage table is limited to a max of 6 or a min of 1?

No where in the rulebook does it put any restriction on the damage table.

And, if you look at the box on the bottom-left of p61, you'll see that Shaken occurs on a "1 or less" and Explodes occurs on a "6 or more".