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I have been trying to think of ways to save room in my kit bad when going to games. Especially apoc gqmes where you have the apoc books to carry.

I was thinking about tryng scan my books into pdf format and getting either a kindle or a cheap tablet pc to store them all on. That way I can have all my codecies, rule books an IA books in one place.

Has anyone tried this? Can the kindle even read pdf files and if so, is the screen big enough to make it readable?

Isn't this illegal?

Not if I already own the books. I have codecies I need (sm, csm, ncron and IG) as well as some of the IA books, the apoc books and the rulebooks (big and aobr versions). I am just trying get them in an easier to read format.

I understand you can convert scanned images into pdf format, so it will take a while.to scan each codex in and convert it. But once it was done I would have all my books at my finger tips.

Only if he distributes them.

gicks30 wrote:Isn't this illegal?

If you own the books, and are scanning your own books for personal use, then it is not illegal (I believe). Using a torrented PDF file is illegal, however.
EDIT: Ninja'd by a few people. Dagnabit!

@OP: I have tried PDF codexes on my Kindle before, they have worked but scan quality was a problem. I think a tablet might work better, as the ability to zoom is pretty important.

The issue is, I have seen people who have used edited electronic files to cheat. I do not want to see your electronic rulebook the same way I do not want to see your electronic dice roller.

Also, when gaming in stores who sell the books, it is insulting to be waving around potentially pirated illegally downloaded PDFs or created PDFs in the very place that sells the product you are using an electronic copy of. It isn't the store owner's fault the manufacturer doesn't sell electronic books of these products. I would say that using it in public and showing the electronic version to other people and allowing them to read it has ended your claim of personal use.

And to protect yourself from 'it's cool, I own the book!' you still have to carry the book which defeats the purpose.

And this is all only legal if you make the effort to scan the PDFs yourself. Good luck with that.

Books are protected by copyright law which usually state that no part of the book may be reproduced in electronic or mechanical form without permission from the publisher. Of course there are fair use policies, but these aren't too specific with regards to scanning a GW codex.

I wouldn't bother making the effort to scan them all. Perhaps write GW a letter stating why you want electronic versions of books. I'm not sure they can be convinced, but hey, books are better for the environment anyway!

gicks30 wrote:Isn't this illegal?

Maybe, but GW probably wouldn't try to sue you as long as you don't distribute the copies and made them yourself.

If you want good scans you need to cut the book apart to get the pages to lay properly. GW would probably appreciate the extra business.

Avoiding the valid, but tiresome, legal debate: Make sure you try complex PDFs on any device you are considering. Some eReaders mangle PDF files badly, and I expect this would be very noticeable for scans converted to PDFs where you're relying on OCR text layered behind a big scanned image. Some eReaders essentially rip the text to move PDF files to their preferred format, and may have trouble with complex layouts, statlines, etc.

'Good' PDFs are generated the same way the files are sent to a printer, as an export from the layout software. The text is stored as text. (In other words, the PDF file has a command saying "Draw the text "Text" in Font X, Size Y, at this location" in the good file, while a scanned may just say "Draw this bitmap" which is less efficient, not as searchable, and generally slower to display.

A lot of companies do 'good' PDFs, but I don't think you can get them for GW books, at least not legally.

The biggest problems, generally, are things like cross-referencing.

It is awkward at best to flip between non-consecutive pages using an e-book, for most folks.

You can make excellent reference sheets though.

This discussion comes up quite often. Here my points:

1.) Most Codex pdf-copies are illegal, so people including GW staff will think that yours are too. Some people will ask you to not use them, others will ask you to give them a copy.
2.) Making your own scan will severely damage your paper copy.
3.) Spilling a beer over a Codex or letting it drop is less disastrous than spilling a beer over a Kindle or tablet PC or letting it drop. Same with things getting stolen.

I won't speak about the legality of scanning .pdfs of Codecies, but I use a Nook Color quite regularly as a gaming device and it works great. You can load PDFs on them and search whatever you want when playing D&D and such. Tablets usually have a built-in zoom, so readability isn't a problem, and if your pdf is bookmarked, it makes searching easier.

I've also tried it on my sister's Kindle, and even Kindles can convert color pdfs into black-and-white images for viewing.

--

Either way, I've found that a better solution to saving pages is to make little gaming aids such as printouts of the army summary and weapons tables.
Use the tablet device only to get an "official" wording on individual unit descriptions and such. Plus, you can carry around the official and unofficial FAQs.

Do note that tablets are rather expensive. I'm in love with my Nook, but that's a separate issue. The recent $99 HP tablet got people into a frenzy so that's also an option. The iPad is an option if you enjoy burning money.

Legality: It's a very grey area. People like the RIAA view changing the format of your copywriten works as being illegal. Others believe this is fair use. The law has yet to definitively decide on this issue.

Practicality: I wouldn't do it. As others have pointed out, you'll damage your paper copies doing this. And, the end result will be disappointing. The kindle screen is a little too small for you to represent a full page on it and still be readable. And, zooming on the kindle is very difficult to use.

Stick with paper copies.

There is no reason not to have a paper copy.

That said, many folks I know re-bind their most used gaming books, with army books and codexes rank up there for most used.
If someone decides to do so, it is the perfect time to create .pdf files without doing (further) damage to the book.

ymmv

Just do it. If anyone complains, don't play with them. Easy as that.

Grakmar wrote:Legality: It's a very grey area. People like the RIAA view changing the format of your copywriten works as being illegal. Others believe this is fair use. The law has yet to definitively decide on this issue.

That depends in part on where you are.

In Australia, thanks to some changes made to the copyright legislation a couple of years ago following public complaint over the ridiculousness of selling iPods in a country where it was illegal to put any music on them, it's now legal to copy books, cds or videos (but not DVDs, due to their encryption) for personal use so long as you do change the format. So just 1-for-1 copying of a CD is still technically illegal, but ripping that CD to MP3 (or in this case, copying your book into electronic format for your e-reader) is fine.

A couple comments:

-I have an iPad, and it is phenomenal for gaming books. While I still enjoy flipping through my D&D books for reference purposes and for getting ideas, I've got PDF's of a few other gaming books (which had digital versions released) and the compact format is really quite nice for certain purposes.

-Keep in mind that you don't need the entire Codex for it to be a useful reference tool. The codexes are packed with pages that are completely useless for gaming, so you can probably get away with scanning maybe a dozen pages, which you should be able to do without TOO much damage to the binding.

-In a similar vein, what I've done before is to scan the relevant pages for a specific army list, then in Photoshop cut-and-paste all of the text and rules that I needed to potentially look up when playing that army so I could print it out onto a single sheet of paper for reference. I still had the book in my bag if someone wanted to verify the exact, original wording, but having a single easy-to-see sheet instead of having to dig through X pages made life far easier.

-If you are, somehow, able to find completely-scanned files of rulebooks or codexes online via certain websites, I'd suggest at least trying them out on your device. A first-gen, e-ink Kindle will probably not be a very good bet (I understand that their pdf reading is a little bit iffy) but something with a LCD screen like and iPad or various other color tablets will work quite well.


Releasing digital/PDF copies of books is becoming increasingly common in the RPG world these days. There are a number of companies that will give you a download code to go along with your paper book purchase (the Dresden Files RPG did this, IIRC). Considering that for GW their rulebooks are really not their driving sales purpose (as opposed to books for an RPG, where that's the only income) there is no real reason for GW to not make their books available in digital form these days. Hell, it would probably sell them more miniatures if people could have easier access to their codexes. I'm only starting a new army because I finally took the time to read a codex and found two lines: that would have been better for them if I'd read it two months ago when the codex first came out.

Ok, so codex's and rule books are...dodgy at best. Fair enough.


Lets move away from the rulebooks then and consider the official GW or FW produced pdfs you get from their own websites.

if i downloaded these onto my netbook and preferred not to carry around a big folder with all these printouts in. Would i be able to just plug in a kindle and copy the PDF across and be able to view it? or do i need to fiddle with settings etc?

Note: i do not at present own a kindle or tablet. Depending on how straightfoward/feasable it is, i may buy one in the next month or so.

Mr Proudhoof wrote:Books are protected by copyright law which usually state that no part of the book may be reproduced in electronic or mechanical form without permission from the publisher.

In the USA, it is legal to make a PDF/scan of any book you own as long as you do not distribute that new file nor sell the physical book once the file is made. If you are not in the USA, things may be different for you so check on the internet to verify your own country's laws on this matter.

Praxiss wrote:if i downloaded these onto my netbook and preferred not to carry around a big folder with all these printouts in. Would i be able to just plug in a kindle and copy the PDF across and be able to view it? or do i need to fiddle with settings etc?

It depends entirely on the software that the specific tablet uses.

For instance, with my iPad:
1. Download the PDF file
2. Import the file into iTunes
3. Check the box next to that file in the "books" section of my iPad's sync settings
4. Sync
5. Open up iBooks on the iPad to make sure it's there and works.

So it really can be quite simple, but you'll probably want to look around to make sure that the device you're looking at fully supports generic PDF files. Some of them have been rather picky about only supporting those with DRM or other copy protection involved, or have issues displaying PDF's right.

A scanned PDF would be impractical, IMO, but weather it's legal or not, GW isn't going to do anything to you as long as you don't distribute it. How would they even know you did it, unless you went out of your way to show them your handiwork?

I like the idea of using e-readers and tablets, but for me the PDF would have to be done properly, searchable, with links and bookmarks and all that fun stuff. I don't think GW will get on that bandwagon until paper is outlawed in 2037.

Necros wrote:A scanned PDF would be impractical, IMO, but weather it's legal or not, GW isn't going to do anything to you as long as you don't distribute it. How would they even know you did it, unless you went out of your way to show them your handiwork?

I like the idea of using e-readers and tablets, but for me the PDF would have to be done properly, searchable, with links and bookmarks and all that fun stuff. I don't think GW will get on that bandwagon until paper is outlawed in 2037.

Most of the PDFs I have seen are searchable, but not very many have links in the table of contents :(

Thanks to those who answered my question

@Praxiss: Sorry for derailing your thread!

Necros wrote:A scanned PDF would be impractical, IMO, but weather it's legal or not, GW isn't going to do anything to you as long as you don't distribute it. How would they even know you did it, unless you went out of your way to show them your handiwork?

I like the idea of using e-readers and tablets, but for me the PDF would have to be done properly, searchable, with links and bookmarks and all that fun stuff. I don't think GW will get on that bandwagon until paper is outlawed in 2037.

They pushed the ban back from 2037 to 2051. They forgot to give an exception for toilet paper, and while the cornhusk industry was all for keeping it that way, they got voted down and the whole thing had to get sent back to committee for amendment, and then has to go back out to be signed by all the department heads, which adds up a 14 year delay. Someone tried to suggest that everyone just use a kindle with scanned toilet paper, but the idea was too radical.

Sadly, it's turning out that secret world governments are often as slow to get things done as the regular kind. Can't start the revolution soon enough.

At a tourney I was at 2 weekends ago 3 or 4 players were using Ipads with huge numbers of GW source books in PDF form.

They all loved it and the only complaint was it can take a few seconds longer to get where you want because with the paper copy you tend to know what area of a book, the item you are looking for is.

Praxiss wrote:Not if I already own the books. I have codecies I need (sm, csm, ncron and IG) as well as some of the IA books, the apoc books and the rulebooks (big and aobr versions). I am just trying get them in an easier to read format.

I understand you can convert scanned images into pdf format, so it will take a while.to scan each codex in and convert it. But once it was done I would have all my books at my finger tips.

this has been done


I have always wondered what people would say when I come with every codex on my phone.

Praxiss wrote:Would i be able to just plug in a kindle and copy the PDF across and be able to view it? or do i need to fiddle with settings etc?

Yes, you plug in the USB cable, then simply import PDF files, and they appear in your book list. As someone else has said, it is tricky to zoom, and I find standard PDF text too small on a kindle screen, plus it is harder to leaf through compared to a real book, but you can place bookmarks etc.

I personally would use a netbook or tablet. I use a netbook when playing D&D and use the online SRD, which is awesome. I really wish GW would embrace some newer technologies!

To prevent damage to my codices, I use a hi-res digital camera with good background lighting and no flash, then I just compile a PDF using Adobe.

It's perfectly legal in the US.

Here's another thread about this for reference.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/393878.page

I wouldn't use it for games, but it's nice to not have to carry around 30+ codices and rulebooks.


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Alternatively, you could use one of those as seen on tv scanners, where you just hold it in your hand and swipe.

for arguments sake, what if you download the pdf from the net to use on your tablet but you actually own the book?

does this like destroy the copyright universe?

i do like the idea of using a tablet for codexes, i do think GW and black library would in fact make a killing from digital codexes, i.e. all the artwork etc removed, just basic rules.

There's no real way for them to know without being IP stalking bandwidth nazi's.

I lost the PDF copy of my 3rd ed. guard codex when my old laptop (RIP) passed on, and didn't think it would survive a second transition to PDF (it was used extensively), so I just "acquired" another (PDF copy).