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Hi, Dakka, simple question: How are Space Marines promoted?

He does something brave, or he is promoted by his superiors because they like him. Or his terms of service show he deserves it.
Or he shows abosulte love for technology = Tech Marine
radically follows the tennats of the chapter cult = chaplain
Shows great promise in leading = Sarge
Saves captains life = Command Squad

Like how is he noticed, or when, and is he promoted just out of the blue?

Best candidate to replace loses from prior battle.

Sarges constantly keep their Captains up to date on their best battle brothers. Then when there is a gap, its pretty straight forward.

By outliving the gak out of everyone else, friend and foe alike.

Really? How about achievements? So, how about a Space Marine kills a Chaos Lord, what rank would he be promoted to?

Ogryn wrote:Really? How about achievements? So, how about a Space Marine kills a Chaos Lord, what rank would he be promoted to?

A pat on his bald unhelmeted head and a tootise-pop from a chaplain.

There are only a thousand marines per chapter, and they seldom mobilize the entire chapter for a single battle. At some point every marines is going to have killed dozens of every conceivable enemy out there.

When there's only about a thousand guys in your organization, it's pretty easy to keep track of what each of your men does. Astartes aren't really bogged down by the same bureaucratic paperwork the rest of the Imperium is.

Since Space Marines pretty much only ever die in combat, there's a lot of battlefield promotions going on. In almost every bit of fiction, a Space Marine officer dies and in his final breath promotes the best of his comrades.

Devastators are the lowest ranks, but definitely seems like the most fun.

Ogryn wrote:Really? How about achievements? So, how about a Space Marine kills a Chaos Lord, what rank would he be promoted to?

Presumably, as in real world militaries, he'd receive a commendation or medal for his skill and valour, which might well accelerate his promotion, or see him transferred to an elite unit, but the system wouldn't be a simple as 'kill something scary and you're made a captain'.

For Space Wolves, doesn't a marine's entire unit get promoted to the next rank together or something?

Promotion procedures will vary hugely from chapter to chapter.

I'm trying to remember where I read it but I think the Codex Astarte is 'promotion' by training. Everyone's a scout learning to move silent, be quick, prioritize targets etc.

Then your 'squad' or what's left are shuffled together as Devastators to learn all the big guns.

Then they get 'promoted' to the Assault squads to learn HtH and finally get made into a Tactical marine. I imagine those that excel get transferred back or stay on to become Sergeants of those units. Really exceptional marines bump up into the veterans units (Sternguard/Vanguard/Command Squad).

In a black library book a heavy weapon marine becomes a Tac sarge but I can't remember if he was the tac HW or was a devastator.

I'm sure other Chapters differ but I know for sure Space Wolves mix it up and let all the angry new recruits be Blood Claws (assault marines) first and the Devastator last as by then they're older and more patient to shoot the heavy weapons.

From my understanding, and while there might be exception (especially on how long some thing take, it really depend on the rate of attrition of the chapter) the life and/or career of a Codex Space Marines goes something like this;

- Recruited from one of the recruiting world of the Chapter.

- Scanned for imperfections - be they mental (resistance to hypno-conditioning), physical (predisposition toward rejecting implants) or spiritual (sensible to taint... this is also where they will detect if you have latent psychic ability). Scanning isn't always 100% accurate, but it helps.

- Following the scans, initiate who have a knack for medicine or science or who have latent psychic ability take an entire different career path. The would be apothecary study/train under the apothecaries, the would be tech marine go to mars and the would be librarian goes with the chapter's psychers. The lore isn't clear about what that training does or does not entail, but it is pretty clear they don't become scout or devastator or what not and have a very different path in front of them.

- Start scout training and start getting implants.

- Start doing missions as a Scout as body gets used to more and more implant - this teach them the finer point of stealth warfare. It take roughly 20 years for the Gene-Seed to mature, and this is roughly the length of scout training.

- Receive the final implant, the Black Carapace, get his own set of power armor and is consecrated a Battle Brother.

- Join a devastator squad has one of the guy with a Bolter. Job is to defend the Heavy weapon guy which teach them to protect their brothers. Essentially, 'bodyguard class'. Again, this probably goes on for at least 1 or 2 decade.

- Remains a devastator, but get to use a Heavy Weapon now. This teach them how to use heavy weapon (der). Again, another good 10-20 years here.

- Move on to assault marine. This the crash course in close combat. Another 10-20 years is probably spent here.

- Move on to Tactical Squad. The irony here is that while Tactical Squad are 'troop', they are kinda elite in the fluff... but yeah, after Scout, Devastator Bodyguard, Devastator Heavy Wep specialist and close combat specialist, a Tactical Marine is supposed to be extremely well trained, well rounded and able to handle any situation. Another good 10-20 years here.

- Receive his first iron stud in the forehead to signify a 100 year of service. At this point the Marine can choose to remain in a Tactical Squad, or return to Assault/Devastator or even Scout (And become a Scout Sergeant basically) - he does what he's best at, what he likes best and serve as a role model to the 'new crew'.

- After a few more decades of service (and quite possibly a few honor/medals), the Marine is looking at another promotion... depending on his skill. If he is a good leader, he may become a Sergeant in his chosen field. If he lack leadership (or if he does and there is no vacancy in sergeant position) than he's probably looking at joining the Vanguard or Sternguard veteran. He will probably receive the Crux Termatus and the training to pilote a Terminator Armor, allowing to join Terminator squad if the force commander deems it necessary.

In 'game term', he essentially gets +1A

- At this point it start being a bit muddy... it's uncertain whether a Sternguard Vet outrank a 'normal' Tactical Sergeant for example (or the relation between Assault Sarge and Vanguard Vet for example or how a Devastator Sarge compare to either...). One can only assume that a Sternguard/Vanguard Sarge outrank a Tactical/Assault Sarge, but even then isn't that clear.

That being said, upon getting Sternguard/Vanguard or Sergeant promotions (or both) the next step if there is one is most likely to join the Command Squad for your company or be transfered to the 1st Company... Things also get muddy here, is a 1st Company Tactical Marine higher ranked than non-1st Company Sternguard for example? It's hard to say, all that is clear is that being 1st Company is a great honor.

- At this point, the path diverge greatly. Right around 200 years of service (and a second iron stud)...

If the Marine has no aptitude for leadership, he pretty much hit a glass ceiling when he join the 1st Company Sternguard/Vanguard Squad or the Command Squad. If he performs admirably has an adviser/bodyguard to his captain while part of the Command Squad, he may be promoted to the Chapter Master's Honor Guard. This is pretty much has far as 'normal' Marine (i.e. One with no psychic power, no gift for medicine or science and no leadership aptitude) can aspire to go.

However, if he has leadership skill (And he's probably a Sergeant of somekind at this point), than he has a very good shot at earning a Captain promotion if a position become available. Yeah, he will only be promoted when a Captain dies. Odds are he won't be captain of his old Company either. For the Captain, his path isn't quite over.

- As years and decade of service has a Captain past, the odds are good that the 1st Company Captain will die. One of the other company's Captain will than be promoted to 1st Company Captain (This also means you need a Captain for the now vacant post).

- When the Chapter Master dies, the 1st Company Captain traditionally becomes the new Chapter Master (the Cato Sicarus lore implies that they may be some politicking involved to this... do the remaining Captains elect one of their own? Is the Council of Terra involved? This isn't clear). At this point, you can expect him to have at least 300 years of service and have killed pretty much anything that walk, flies, swim or crawl in the galaxy at least once .



So no, in short, there's some kind of 'kill a chaos lord:: become a sergeant' thing. However, doing incredible acts like this will earn the Marine honors - the laurels (on the helm, kneepad or weapon), the iron skull (that small skull some marine have on their helmet right above the eyes), the Crux Terminatus (exemplary service may mean getting it faster) and of course, Purity Seals... all of those are basically medals. Take a look at your Marines..., pretty much every piece of 'bling' they have on them represent a medal or honor of somekind. Even the chest crest - those with only wings have not earned the honor to wear the full 'Skull with Wing' crest. Medals/Honor essentially help you get promotion, but no single action will make you skyrocket through the ranks... you still need to put in the time.

Codex chapters have the following progression (all starting after selection, of course):

-Scout becomes:
-Scout Biker, who becomes:
-Devastator with bolter, who becomes:
-Devastator with heavy weapon, who, after distinguishing himself with exemplary service, becomes:
-Assault Marine (at this stage the Marine also trains as a Biker) who, if truly distinguished, becomes:
-Tactical Marine. Note that Tactical special/heavy weapons are not distributed by rank, but rather rotated through the squad.

Truly distinguished Marines either become Command Squad members in their existing company or are inducted into the Chapter's First Company, where they become Sternguard/Vanguard Veterans and/or are seconded to other Companies to act as Sergeants. If and when they distinguish themselves even further, they become Terminators.

Captains are either promoted from the First Company or from distinguished members of the existing company's Command Squad. Obviously, someone only becomes Captain if the previous Captain dies. Chapter Masters are promoted from the Captains.

The absolute best fighters in the Chapter become Honor Guard. Many fluff sources place Honor Guard as better than Captains in terms of personal skill/experience and on par with the Chapter Master in some respects. The Chapter Champion is the best individual fighter in the Chapter and focuses entirely on confronting enemy leaders in duels..

Well that pretty much covers it. Think about this too, marines live for several hundred years, so the main component of getting promoted is just outlasting everybody else.

All space marines are just that - Almost immortal super humans that are endowed with the genes of the god emperor of all mankind. Marines don't even consider themselves human, because in most ways they're not. Marines are demi-gods and this is also why one marine isn't much different than another, and in a sense one marine is much the same as his brothers, regardless of rank. They all consider themselves the direct sons of the emperor.

Marines and promotions are also a little different than what we would think of as being "promoted". Marines are small cults of knights / monks, a brotherhood where every marine is a vetran of countless battles on a hundred worlds across the galaxy. Titles are more of an honor, a kind of formality for the marines that have managed to stay alive the longest. In this sense getting promoted isn't a competition, or trying out for a job like we would know. It's an honorary title, and younger marines under the leaders obey them without question out of reverence for their elders.

Would becoming a Dreadnought be considered a promotion?

DeffDred wrote:Would becoming a Dreadnought be considered a promotion?

For a Imperial marine it's a way to continue the fight against the enemies of mankind after their natural life / and or being emtombed in the suit after being mortally wounded - so for them big yes.

For Chaos marines not so much. Wounded chaos marines are forced into the suit against their will and almost inevitably go insane. So for them it is an eternity of torture and rage.

For Chaos marines not so much. Wounded chaos marines are forced into the suit against their will and almost inevitably go insane. So for them it is an eternity of torture and rage.
[spoiler]

Kinda still feels like a promotion though. Like when Tzeentch turns someone into a demon prince or Spawn. Something's going to happen and you're probably gonna have more trouble to deal with than before.

Found a good article about this subject over at the Bolter & Chainsword. Kinda Ultramarine focused, but pretty detailed.

They take his helmet

For Chaos marines not so much. Wounded chaos marines are forced into the suit against their will and almost inevitably go insane. So for them it is an eternity of torture and rage.
[spoiler]

K"inda still feels like a promotion though. Like when Tzeentch turns someone into a demon prince or Spawn. Something's going to happen and you're probably gonna have more trouble to deal with than before."

Turning into a daemon prince is the big payoff for doing all things evil and gaining the favor of the Chaos gods. Once a chaos marine turns into a daemon prince he has obtained immortality and increddible power. So yeah turning into a daemon is the ultimate promotion for a chaos marine.

SauceCaptain wrote:Well that pretty much covers it. Think about this too, marines live for several hundred years, so the main component of getting promoted is just outlasting everybody else.

Not quite. Some Marines stay in their initial positions-- the Codex notes that some Marines are not flexible enough to become Tacticals, but instead focus on one set of weapons to the exclusion of all else. If a Marine finds a niche that he is truly committed to, he might very well remain a Devastator (for example) for his entire career as a Marine, perhaps becoming a Sergeant to better lead other Devastators in battle.