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I was wondering, is it better to use Crusader squads packing ranged weapons or rush into melee with them packing CCWs and Power Weapons? Most people seem to use them as ranged units, and I have heard that the fluffy style (CC) will get you killed in the first turn. Which one would you choose; Close combat or ranged support?

I use one ranged squad and one CC Squad and they haven't disappointed.

Ok thanks for the advice

9 man crusader squad with BP/CCW and a PW joined by the EC in a Rhino will most certainly not die the first turn.

I use a little bit of both, BT does shooty MSU very well and with AACNMTO they are all beastly in CC.

A good mix seems pretty reliable, I've tried going heavy with CC and been wiped out but the CCW squad with the champ in a rhino certainly works.

Shooty for me. I find crusaders are really not that great at cc, st4 is not hard enough.

MFletch wrote:Shooty for me. I find crusaders are really not that great at cc, st4 is not hard enough.

S4 wounds MEQ and Orks on 4+ and Nids, Eldar, IG etc on 3+ so i don't see how its not hard enough. Re-rolls to hit makes up for their single base attack so they are more than capable of dealing with most enemies in CC. maybe not as good as Orks or one of Matt Ward's super marines, but still very good.

VegRAWR wrote:

MFletch wrote:Shooty for me. I find crusaders are really not that great at cc, st4 is not hard enough.

S4 wounds MEQ and Orks on 4+ and Nids, Eldar, IG etc on 3+ so i don't see how its not hard enough. Re-rolls to hit makes up for their single base attack so they are more than capable of dealing with most enemies in CC. maybe not as good as Orks or one of Matt Ward's super marines, but still very good.

Yes, but how are you to kill orks or BA or space wolves?
You squads have either shoot pistols or try for cc as their two attack options. Neither is very effective against these armies so you are relying on the rest of your army to do the killing.

MFletch wrote:

VegRAWR wrote:

MFletch wrote:Shooty for me. I find crusaders are really not that great at cc, st4 is not hard enough.

S4 wounds MEQ and Orks on 4+ and Nids, Eldar, IG etc on 3+ so i don't see how its not hard enough. Re-rolls to hit makes up for their single base attack so they are more than capable of dealing with most enemies in CC. maybe not as good as Orks or one of Matt Ward's super marines, but still very good.

Yes, but how are you to kill orks or BA or space wolves?
You squads have either shoot pistols or try for cc as their two attack options. Neither is very effective against these armies so you are relying on the rest of your army to do the killing.

If i play against orks i just make some changes to my army accordingly. Against BA and SW I use the same list, but choose my targets carefully.

It's not like he has to use the same list all the time

Edit: you can fire your pistols in the shooting phase and still assault. You don't have to choose 1.

Anyone have an experience with CC Crusader Squads in Drop Pods?

I've tried it and it was a disaster. Since we don't have the new drop pod assault, there is a major chance for coming in piecemeal. The bad part is is that you come down hop out and then can just shoot pistols. You can't charge after landing. If you could I would be all over it.

Nimbosa wrote:Anyone have an experience with CC Crusader Squads in Drop Pods?

I don't like using them since they leave you on foot once you land

Nimbosa wrote:Anyone have an experience with CC Crusader Squads in Drop Pods?

I have been playing drop pod Templars since 4th and they actually work very well. Depending on the composition of your army, if you have at least a half a dozen pods even just with dreadnoughts and normal crusaders the fact that you can get into combat almost immediately is a huge benefit.

The lack of drop pod assault in a full drop list or even a mixture is not as bad as some people make it out to be.

The fact is in a full drop list, your opponent has a full first turn where he doesn't get to shoot anything. With drop pods, you can deploy straight on objectives and hold them almost immediately. With bolter armed squads, you can be within threat range of almost anything you really want to take down. The random aspect of the list can be annoying but by turn 3 or 4 you will have almost all of your pods on the table immediately.

If your opponent shoots the crap out of your crusader squads armed for cc or otherwise, they probably aren't going to be shooting something else. If they are taking down other targets, you are positioned for a charge. Also, if your squads are taking casualties, you will be up in their face even more so.

Also, as an added bonus, your drop pods will be contesting any objectives they land near which forces your opponent to divert even more firepower to take care of them.

In a mixed army, 'kamikaze' squads of CC crusaders up in your opponents army from pods will force him to make a tough decision between immediately attacking the drop podded crusaders or the incoming forces.

IdentifyZero wrote:

Nimbosa wrote:Anyone have an experience with CC Crusader Squads in Drop Pods?

I have been playing drop pod Templars since 4th and they actually work very well. Depending on the composition of your army, if you have at least a half a dozen pods even just with dreadnoughts and normal crusaders the fact that you can get into combat almost immediately is a huge benefit.

The lack of drop pod assault in a full drop list or even a mixture is not as bad as some people make it out to be.

The fact is in a full drop list, your opponent has a full first turn where he doesn't get to shoot anything. With drop pods, you can deploy straight on objectives and hold them almost immediately. With bolter armed squads, you can be within threat range of almost anything you really want to take down. The random aspect of the list can be annoying but by turn 3 or 4 you will have almost all of your pods on the table immediately.

If your opponent shoots the crap out of your crusader squads armed for cc or otherwise, they probably aren't going to be shooting something else. If they are taking down other targets, you are positioned for a charge. Also, if your squads are taking casualties, you will be up in their face even more so.

Also, as an added bonus, your drop pods will be contesting any objectives they land near which forces your opponent to divert even more firepower to take care of them.

In a mixed army, 'kamikaze' squads of CC crusaders up in your opponents army from pods will force him to make a tough decision between immediately attacking the drop podded crusaders or the incoming forces.

In 5th edition people use a lot more vehicles though. How do you get your AT? Deep striking terminators with CML and tank hunters? Or do you still use vehicles in a drop pod army?

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:I was wondering, is it better to use Crusader squads packing ranged weapons or rush into melee with them packing CCWs and Power Weapons? Most people seem to use them as ranged units, and I have heard that the fluffy style (CC) will get you killed in the first turn. Which one would you choose; Close combat or ranged support?

Loaded question!

It really depends on what you want to do with your list. Our Min-Maxed shooty squads are pretty good and I personally believe that its a mistake to not use that to our advantage. However, I've found that if your boards feature lots of BLOS terrain (i.e. Nova Open), then its not so good. There are lots of options for you, depending on what you need. Las/Plas units on your home objectives is very cost effective. MM Bunkers are also pretty darn good if your list needs a serious mid-field presence.

I'm fairly critical of our ability to field an effective CC-oriented Crusader squad unless its in a reactive, sacrificial way (5-man w/ PW and Melta). We simply do not have enough power weapons, nor attacks, to make these units "good". Sure we have AAC, but that is a really deceiving Vow. We really don't have THAT many attacks to make a difference against basic MEQ squads, let alone dedicated close combat units. You gain very advantage for charging Space Wolves due to their Counter-Attack, plus its likely they have multiple power weapons in those units because of their Wolf Guard. While we have to buy expensive ICs to provide those power weapons, SW get Wolf Guard extremely cheap and can spread them to all their units. That means they can have more Grey Hunter units, with more bodies, and they are more effective as standalone units. Blood Angels are the same way, except they get Sanguinary Priests, Red Thirst, and/or Nipplewing variants to use. Anything that we'd be charging and winning solidly against, is stuff we really don't want to charge anyway. It is also important to note that once we start taking losses, our combat effectiveness DRAMATICALLY decreases because we're losing the only thing going for us, weight of attacks.

In the end, I think a balance of the two is best.