Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If a squad of Storm Troopers have the airborne assault special rule and disembark from a Valkyrie that has moved flat out can i re-roll the scatter?

No because they're not deep striking technically.

acekevin8412 wrote:No because they're not deep striking technically.

Grav Chute Insertion: Nominate any point over which the Valkyrie or Vendetta has moved over and deploy the squad as if it were DEEP STRIKING onto that point

So they are deepstriking.

thenoobbomb wrote:So they are deepstriking.

I say yes, other guy says no. its a discussion topic so whats your opinion?

Yes you can, as they are deepstriking.

Does "as if they were" equal "they are"? IIRC in a different thread it was argued that they were different.

rigeld2 wrote:Does "as if they were" equal "they are"? IIRC in a different thread it was argued that they were different.

''As if they were'' = Following the same rules as

^ thats how I would look at it

"As if," means using all the deep striking rules but not actually being deep striking.

I can see you arguments however. As of now, from the last time this question was asked there were two conclusions:

RAW: As if deep striking, but not actually deep striking, so no.
RAI: Yes, they can. I mean look at the artwork and fluff for the two units. Guess what units are depicted using the Valkyrie. And it says that Storm Troopers often deploy, "Leap from low-flying aircraft and descending using grav-chute," in other words, a "Grav-Chute Insertion" just like the rule.

acekevin8412 wrote:"As if," means using all the deep striking rules but not actually being deep striking.

I can see you arguments however. As of now, from the last time this question was asked there were two conclusions:

RAW: As if deep striking, but not actually deep striking, so no.
RAI: Yes, they can. I mean look at the artwork and fluff for the two units. Guess what units are depicted using the Valkyrie. And it says that Storm Troopers often deploy, "Leap from low-flying aircraft and descending using grav-chute," in other words, a "Grav-Chute Insertion" just like the rule.

That pretty much sums it up. For additional "house rule" guidance from GW, they ruled a while back in their FAQ that chaos models with wings which make them move "as if" they were jump infantry get to deep strike. The arguments were pretty similar in that the rules technically didn't allow it from a strict reading excluding other sources of into (like other rules, fluff, non-rules lawyer common sense, etc) but GW took the other view in their own "unofficial" way. Take that for what you will (especially if they have changed that in the past year since I last looked..) They've been relatively consistent with ruling that things that are "as if" or simply "as" (like loganwing terminators occupying troop slots which was a big issue in YMDC back when the codex came out) means they follow the rules for whatever they are acting like in most circumstances.

Jesus, its the GWAR fiasco all over again. You guys are crazy, really. When a rule lets you use the the rules "As if" is the same as using the same rules. Rather then calling the grav shoot rule, deep strike from back of plane, they made it sound cooler and called it grav shoot. Its the same thing, period. They like to make special characters that use "as if" fluffy and cooler then "well we know tyranids dont actually have computers to allow a deepstrike, but they uh...er....do it anyways?" They will call it something else.


So yes, grav shoot "as if" deepstrike is a deepstrike. Period. So the StormTroopers can use their deepstrike reroll because they are deepstriking. Thats the way of it.Seriously guys like you, do nothing more then confuse players, that are already confused about rules, even further.



*spelling

Can you cite a source on this ruling? Or is this a conclusion that you have come to? I can see your reasoning, but the interpretation is pretty open ended as you can see. However, if you have additional information....

By that means any units using it wouldn't mishap

Why because it's the DS mishap table, not the as if table ...

They're one and the same.