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Hi, I need some help with creating an outline for my new SM army before buying the rest of the models I need for it. I am quite keen on using what I already have but am quite open regarding the rest of the list. I would like it to be quite balanced and thus allow me to play many different opponents withouth being total fail

HQ
Librarian, Null zone, The Avenger, Terminator armor, storm bolter

Troops
Tactical squad (10), Flamer, ML, Rhino (have this)
Tactical squad (10), Flamer, ML, Rhino (have this)

Elite
Dreadnought (have this - but can be converted to most configs I guess)
Terminator squad (5), Heavy flamer (have this)
Sternguard vet squad (6), Combimeltas, Razorback(TL-Las) (like this unit a lot and planning on converting a tac squad, in doubt about the combimeltas though)

Fast attack
Land speeder, Heavy bolter, MM (have this but could maybe convert the armament)

Heavy support
Predator, HB sponsons (in doubt)
Vindicator (really like this!)

Total: 1375

And what to do with the rest of the points?

I would give the librarian the gate to get your termies into the breach straight away.

The landspeeder I would give two close range weapons or 2 long ranged. So it can have one position rather than 2 roles needing 2 positions.
Also they work so much better in pairs.

Sternguard are slightly wasted in a razorback. They can shoot from a rhino which can get them into the action quicker. Else I would drop pod 10 all with combimeltas.

You could have 2 combiflamers, 2 combimeltas, 2 meltas in rhino. Tank hunting around.
Or 2 heavy flamers, 4 combimeltas in rhino. Antiinfantry with 2 turns of tank hunting.
Or 2 lascannons and 4 normal bolters. This is to sit back and shoot.

This may leave a lack of long ranged threat as such I would go for 2 preds. Tanks also work better in pairs.

First things first, I think its a great idea to start with models/units that you really like. Build a 1500 point list, play 20 games with it, analyse your strengths and weaknesses and then, if necessary, pick up a few more models to balance your army around your playing style.

So, using the models you already have, I'd try:

Librarian, Terminator Armour, Storm Shield, Null Zone, Gate of Infinity
Tactical Squad (10), Flamer, ML, Melta Bombs, Rhino
Tactical Squad (10), Flamer, ML, Melta Bombs, Rhino
Terminator Squad (5), Heavy Flamer
Dreadnought, 2 x TL Autocannon
Sternguard Squad (6), Combi-Melta (4), Combi-Plasma (2), Melta Bombs, Rhino
Landspeeder, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta
Landspeeder, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta
Vindicator, Siege Shield
Vindicator, Siege Shield

Librarian in Terminator Armour is a good choice, I'd go for the Storm Shield rather than the Storm Bolter though. A 3+ Inv. is very useful. As for psychic powers, I think Gate of Infinity will be useful for moving the Terminators around the board, but you can try out all the powers and see which you like the most.

Standard Tactical Squads are fine, I've given them Melta Bombs for some extra-kick, and because I had a few points left over.

Standard Terminators aren't great, and I think you might end up buying something else to use instead eventually but, as you've already got the models, give them a go and see what happens.

The 'Rifleman' Dreadnought is must-have for Codex: SM as it is so damn good. Buy some Autocannons from a Bitz website and get converting!

Good idea on the Sternguard and even better idea converting them yourself! I'd recommend a Rhino instead as you can shoot out the top hatch and don't listen to all the Combi-Plasma haters - you'll meet a lot of 2+ saves out there (and of course Plasma ignores FNP).

As you already have one Landspeeder, I'd get a second. They do seem to work well in pairs.

Finally, if you like Vindicators, get two!

Thanks a lot to the both of you. I really appreciate that you took your time to give me so detailed feedback. Btw: I see that you agree with each other in many areas of the list - thats very comforting

Based on your input I have made this list:

List 1
HQ
Librarian, Null zone, Gate of infinity, Terminator armor, Storm shield

Troops
Tactical squad (10), Flamer, ML, Rhino
Tactical squad (10), Flamer, ML, Rhino

Elite
Dreadnought, 2xTLAC
Terminator squad (5), Heavy flamer
Sternguard vet squad (8), 2xCombiplasma, 4xCombimelta, Meltabombs, Rhino (added two more from the whirlwind/vindiactor tradeoff - could these points have been used better?)

Fast attack
2xLand speeder, Heavy flamer, MM

Heavy support
Whirlwind (would rather have this than a second Vindicator)
Vindicator, Siege shield

I still have a soft spot for the TL-LAS razorback though... and present this list as an alternative (knowing the drawback of not being able to shoot out the hatch)

List 2
HQ
Librarian, Null zone, Gate of infinity Terminator armor, Storm shield

Troops
Tactical squad (10), Flamer, ML, Meltabombs, Rhino
Tactical squad (10), Flamer, ML, Meltabombs, Rhino

Elite
Dreadnought, 2xTLAC
Terminator squad (5), Heavy flamer
Sternguard vet squad (6), 2xCombiplasma, 4xCombimelta, Meltabombs, Razorback(TL-LAS)

Fast attack
2xLand speeder, Heavy flamer, MM

Heavy support
Whirlwind
Vindicator, Siege shield

So what do you think?

dingletoe wrote:I still have a soft spot for the TL-LAS razorback though... and present this list as an alternative (knowing the drawback of not being able to shoot out the hatch)

If you buy the Razorback kit, just don't glue the top hatch on. The kit includes all the normal Rhino parts as well so you can swap between a Rhino and a TL-Lascannon Razorback whenever you feel like it (this is exactly what I've done with my models).

Check this blog post, it illustrates what I'm trying to say perfectly: http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2010/05/rhino-to-razorback-without-magnets.html

I've personally never tried a Whirlwind but give it a go and see what happens. Again, if you don't glue the Whirlwind top hatch on you can easily swap it for the Rhino doors and use it as a Rhino instead if you ever require.

Like I said in my other post, I recommend buying the models you like and trying them out. You can always add a few extra models later on if your discover your army isn't performing how you'd like.

Yeah I am definately going for the Razorback kits. This was not meant to be a definitive list but mostly to be used as a basis for going shopping. As you say I will probably get/paint some more models later on as I get a feeling for what is needed anyway. Just wanted to avoid major mistakes

Thanks again for the advice

You should defiantly stick those dirty sternguard in a drop pod and get a big headache off the table turn one.

Ok thx - will consider that