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Cause abaddon has all four marks does his daemon weapon have all the abilities that that the daemon weapons get depending the marks explained or his special with the fact it is double strength.

korne: 2d6 extra attacks
Nurgle: 4+ poisoned weapon
Tzeentch: shooting attack
Slaanesh: unsaved wound equals insta death

I would assume it just gets the chaos undivied.

nope just streaght 8 d6 attacks

i thought so

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280663.page

Moving


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To answer the question, though, Abaddon doesn't have 'all four marks'... he has one Mark as specified in his rules.

The only bonus conferred to abby by his weapon being a daemon weapon is the attack generation all daemon weapons get, and that it is a power weapon. Truth be told, though, it's really a powerfist that get's to strike at normal initiative. If you ask me, that's bonus enough. Besides, he still ends up stabbing himself in the face more times than id like to remember...

And don't forget, his talon of horus is a lightning claw, and because he's so badass, he needs only the one to be able to reroll his wounds in close combat. Reroll my unlikely STR 8 PW misses? Yes please.

my buddy is making a csm army and was wondering

Also not that the Daemon Weapon that Abaddon uses doesn't have the flaw that other Daemon Weapons have. As Aipoch pointed out he does have the Talon as well and he seems to be the only character I know of in the game that may use 2 special weapons and gain the full benefits of both.

Saiisil wrote:Also not that the Daemon Weapon that Abaddon uses doesn't have the flaw that other Daemon Weapons have. As Aipoch pointed out he does have the Talon as well and he seems to be the only character I know of in the game that may use 2 special weapons and gain the full benefits of both.

None of this is true.

Rules-wise, he is only equipped with a daemon weapon that does what the rules say it does(and as a Daemon weapon it does all of the "common to all daemon weapons" abilities). The talon does nothing in game on it's own(it is not even a normal CCW)

Drachn'yen + the Talon do exactly what the rules for them in Abbaddon's entry say along with all the basic abilities(and penalties) of a daemon weapon on page 93.

Ok my understanding of the Daemon Weapon part may be wrong but can you tell me where it says that he doesn't benefit in full from using 2 separate special close combat weapons because it clearly states that he benefits from both?

Because the Talon isnt a CCW? It has no in game rules. The effect is the rerolling to wound, but that isnt due to the Talon, ruleswise.

Aipoch wrote:And don't forget, his talon of horus is a lightning claw, and because he's so badass, he needs only the one to be able to reroll his wounds in close combat. Reroll my unlikely STR 8 PW misses? Yes please.

Umm, you only need 1 lightning claw to re-roll failed wounds. All a second LC does is give you +1 to attack for 2 CCW.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Because the Talon isnt a CCW? It has no in game rules. The effect is the rerolling to wound, but that isnt due to the Talon, ruleswise.

under that same train of thought Drach'nyen isn't a CCW either as it has no in game rules. The entry that exist states specifically that because of both of those weapons he gains those bonuses and doesn't exactly say which bonus comes from which weapon therefore rulewise as you pointed out Abaddon has absolutely no CCWs

Everyone has CCWs.

Saiisil wrote:Ok my understanding of the Daemon Weapon part may be wrong but can you tell me where it says that he doesn't benefit in full from using 2 separate special close combat weapons because it clearly states that he benefits from both?

While the talon looks like a lightning claw it, in fact, is not a lightning claw. Drach'nyen+ the talon are a a single weapon with the rules given; they are not separate weapons in the rules.

He still re-rolls failed to wounds(with a Str 8, and at his Initiative); but this is due to the rules for the weapons(as a single weapon); not because one of them is a "lightning claw".

If the rules for Drach'nyen + the talon were separate, or were listed with separate abilities for the separate "weapons" then he would not be able to combine them(without additional rules specifying this).

Drach'Nyen and the Talon of Horus are simply a single daemon weapon that grants Abbaddon Str 8+ re-roll failed to-wounds; and has no abilities dependent upon Mark(so not +1 Str, only 1d6 attacks instead of 2d6, not poisoned, doesn't inflict ID on enemies with a T of >4, and cannot fire d6 S4 ap3 shots up to 24" in the shooting phase).

Saiisil wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Because the Talon isnt a CCW? It has no in game rules. The effect is the rerolling to wound, but that isnt due to the Talon, ruleswise.

under that same train of thought Drach'nyen isn't a CCW either as it has no in game rules. The entry that exist states specifically that because of both of those weapons he gains those bonuses and doesn't exactly say which bonus comes from which weapon therefore rulewise as you pointed out Abaddon has absolutely no CCWs

Somewhat correct; Drach'nyen alone has no rules and is not a CCW on it's own; but "the daemon sword Drach'nyen and the Talon of horus" does have rules specifying it as a Daemon weapon(which is itself a 2-handed special close combat weapon); so abbaddon does, in fact have a special CCW(a daemon weapon).

Kel, while I see your point I would like to point out the description of The Daemon Sword Drach'nyen and The Talon of Horus specifically mention that they are 2 powerful artifacts which read to me as 2 different weapons.

Saiisil wrote:Kel, while I see your point I would like to point out the description of The Daemon Sword Drach'nyen and The Talon of Horus specifically mention that they are 2 powerful artifacts which read to me as 2 different weapons.

Neither weapon has any individual rules though; "these two powerful artifacts means that Abaddon counts as being equipped with daemon weapon that...(continues to give the specifics for the daemon weapon's special rules)"

They are fluff-wise "two powerful atrifacts" that rules-wise count as "a"(read singular) daemon weapon.

They are not 2 separate weapons as far as rules are concerned.


They are also still a daemon weapon, so the daemon weapon's benefits of being a power weapon, gaining 1d6 bonus attacks(wounding the wielder on a roll of 1), and requiring 2 hands(no 2-ccw bonus attacks, even if Abaddon had a second ccw) all very much apply.

I can see your argument but allow me to counter, You say fluffwise they are "two powerful atrifacts" yet in the description of the rules the sentence that includes that reference is a part of the rules within the description not the fluff. I am not saying he deserves a second CCW bonus or anything like that I am simply saying that as this combination exists he gets all the benefits of 2 special CCWs, the Daemon Weapon bonuses (as I had given up on that point there upon re-reading) and the Lightning Claw bonus of the Talon of Horus.

No what I am saying is that the rules "count them as" a single daemon weapon.

The 2 weapons do not have any special rules individually, the 2 together are a single Daemon weapon(with the listed benefits).

Nah, I think he gets just one or the undivided.

But as you know, Abbadon has no arms!

Saiisil wrote:I can see your argument but allow me to counter, You say fluffwise they are "two powerful atrifacts" yet in the description of the rules the sentence that includes that reference is a part of the rules within the description not the fluff. I am not saying he deserves a second CCW bonus or anything like that I am simply saying that as this combination exists he gets all the benefits of 2 special CCWs, the Daemon Weapon bonuses (as I had given up on that point there upon re-reading) and the Lightning Claw bonus of the Talon of Horus.

As far as the rules are concerned, the "two weapons" he has are treated as a single weapon. It's as simple as that. He doesn't "get all the benefits of 2 special CCWs", for all intents and purposes he just has a single weapon.

The effects of this weapon are reminiscent of regular Daemon Weapons and Lightning Claws combined, but he doesn't literally have "a Daemon Weapon and a Lightning Claw".

"The EFFECT (singular) of these two powerful artefacts means that Abbadon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his strength (to Strength 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1, and he may re-reoll any failed roll to wound in close combat. *Abbadon has +D6 attacks from his Deamon Weapon."

Even though the model appears to have two different weapons there is only one set of rules for them as a whole.

Devil's advocate - you do realize that having two seperate weapons would actually make abaddon weaker? You could reroll wounds *OR* get 1d6 s8 attacks.

Compare this to huron blackheart. He has a powerfist *or* a power weapon - he can attack at I1 at S8 or I5 at S4. You can't combine both.

/DA - Abaddon has one weapon, a combination lightning claw and daemon weapon. I don't think anyone else is awesome enough to merge two different special weapons together into one profile like abaddon can.

Lets settle it at this.

Abbys profile lists him as str4(8). He attacks at str 8. He has 4 attacks base, plus D6 attacks for his daemon weapon. He does not gain a bonus attack for two ccw's.

At best, he has 11 str 8 pw attacks on the charge at initiative 6. The talon of horus allows him to reroll failed rolls to wound.

At worst, he rolls a 1 for his D6 attacks, suffers a wound, and fails his save, giving him one wound and no attacks.