Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pretty much what the topic says, I am in the process of securing funding and a plan for a gaming store that will hopefully open within a year in Portland, OR. And I wanted to get some feedback from people who play regularly who aren't me. What draws you in to a store? What turns you off? What hours do you prefer? Basically what would make you want to come and play at my place when it opens?

Clean, professionally-run (polite, informative staff), good tables with nice terrain, good levels of stock. Do a search for posts by Mikhaila (who runs two successful stores, which have probably the sexiest gaming space in the country) and you will find a lot of solid-gold advise on running a store.

Clean and professional. Knowledgeable and attentive staff (not about everything but at least should know where to look...also should only get involved in games in progress in store if there is an issue or asked)
Good stock of every game supported (within reason).

Key for me is a decent sized gaming space with usefull and good terrain which does not interfere with the operation of the store.

Well lit.

Gaming space, game stock, tournaments for various gaming systems. These are the things that my group and I look for in a game store.

Lightcavalier wrote:Clean and professional. Knowledgeable and attentive staff (not about everything but at least should know where to look...also should only get involved in games in progress in store if there is an issue or asked)
Good stock of every game supported (within reason).

Key for me is a decent sized gaming space with usefull and good terrain which does not interfere with the operation of the store.

Well lit.

What has already been said is key but i want to say my 2 cents about other issues as well

For me, its to not isolate your players! Here when im off at college we have 1 store that is 95% dedicated to magic the gathering and yu gi oh. The other 5% is for 40k gamers and warmachine / hordes that they hide off in the back corner away from the kiddies near the back smoking area. If you are gonna open a store and im a customer, i dont want to feel like im a plauge on the store by playing 40k at your venue. I understand yu gi oh and magic cards are cheaper and make more money in the long run for shop owners but a fair equal across the board treatment of all players is what im looking for.

Also for some reason, since this is a college town they told me that quote "since we cant serve beer to people playing 40k, most 40k gamers dont come here and instead prefer the dorms"
.........
.........
Really? At least have the guts to say, "no 40k isnt popular here, we are trying target other people and games"

Now how to do it right:

My store when i go home for christmas / summer is what i expect (what has been stated above) PLUS! they keep it so all gamers are in the same general area and no one game / styles (table top, cards ect) are "sectioned off" from the others. They have a staff that is welcoming and the place is well lit so i dont feel like ive walked into a hole in the wall joint. They also usually care to keep the terrian well stocked and support the 40k / WM / Hordes players with tournaments and other events to keep community interest. The place is run on a tight shift and is CLEAN!

Good luck in your shop, i'd like to hear more about it once it opens

Continuing the theme: Clean, professional looking (and behaving) staff. No neckbeards! Deodorant a must! Making an effort to ensure the crew in the gaming area doesn't stink helps too.

Clean, well-lit gaming area. Plenty of room for gaming. The crew in the game area will be your best advertizing for your wares. On the flip side, the gaming area shouldn't dominate the store, or block access to the sales floor. You wind up with a geek version of a 'pool hall' look and might scare away customers.

One more thing about the crew in the gaming area: Under no circumstances should they be allowed to be rude to others - even among themselves. Hearing a loud group of boors cursing at each other can be the kiss of death to a potential buying customer. But they should be encouraged to mingle with new customers when they care to; as I said, these guys will be your best advertizing. They can also give advice and assisstance to cutomers with questions about games you and your staff are less familiar with.

As much as I hate to say it, Collectable card games are big money now. Sneak a few tables and chairs in for them; they might just pay your rent all by themselves.

DO NOT overinvest in GW unless you have a really active GW customer base. Many years ago, my sister and her husband opened a store; he insisted on being 'chapter certified' by GW and bought everything they had. And watched it all sit on the shelves, because there weren't all that many WFB/40K players in Paris, Texas at the time. Yes, the store went under in short order.

Make a point of scheduling competing games on separate nights and Post It With Large Signs. Don't have M:TG and Yu-Gi-Oh on the same night; likewise split up Warmachine and WFB/40K, in the interest of avoinding intergame conflicts. (You can put WFB/40K with cardgamers, so long as noise levels don't get out of hand. The two groups generally don't mingle enough for intergame conflict to rear it's ugly head.


Last: Don't expect to make a mint. You'll be doing well to break even. FLGS don't make lots of money as a rule. You could very well be living on peanut butter, ramen noodle, and cheap mac&cheese to help keep the store open. There was a Dork Tower strip in Dragon Magazine on that many years back, I reccomend looking it up before opening your store.

On the flip side of that... you'll be running a game store, and you'll be your own boss. Both those things seem kinda cool, looking in from the outside.

having just left Portland last year i have a few observations about the two different stores i used there...
i'm just a painter, so these are kind of outsider observations compared to the hardcore gamer's experience...

the first store i went to was Grenadier Games (down on 3rd and Pine)...
they have a horrible location for drive-by traffic...
i don't think anyone would just stumble upon the shop...

that aside, everything else about the shop was awesome...
great brick building, plenty of space, good selection of card, mini, and board games, as well as a good stock of paints and magazines...

the staff was cool, friendly and attentive, but a far cry from the GW redshirt experience...

they seem to have gaming nights for a variety of stuff like Flames of War, Warmachine, 40K, Fantasy, and magic...
plenty of tables to play on, and there always seemed to be 10-20 people playing each system...

painting night had a small crew, but they came nearly every week...
the big, once a month, stay open late, painting night with pizza always seemed like a success...
it felt like a community, where everyone knew each other...

i cannot say enough good things about the atmosphere at the shop...

at the opposite extreme, we have Bridgetown Hobbies (33rd-ish and Sandy)...
i started going here when i moved out by the airport, as it was closest...
their location is great for drive-by traffic, as thousands of people are passing by everyday...
unfortunately, with the bars on the windows and the lowkey sign, they never look like they are actually open...

the shop is gaming and model kits, split about 50/50...
the two sides of the store are seperated, leaving both sides feeling a bit cramped and worlds apart, making it feel like you were stood in half a store, literally...

the staff was friendly enough, but they didn't feel very enthusiastic, at least not in the same way as they do at GG...
the shop is tidy, and has a nice selection of GW stuff, as well as Warmachine, and a smaller selection of Reaper and Infinity...

the major drawback for a gamer, or anyone who really wanted to hangout, was the single gaming table in the middle of the minis side...
this one table, smack in the middle of everything, made the place seem even more cramped...
i always felt slightly in a hurry to get my stuff and go...

they are a good little shop, that i was always happy to give my money to, but not a place that i ever hungout...
Grenadier, on the other hand, was a shop that i always hated to leave...
huge difference!!!

check out both, and see if what you can take away from each place...
if you land somewhere in the middle with a new shop, you should be good...

best of luck to ya...

cheers
jah

Most of the things I look for are not really in the control of the store.

1) Proximity - The closer to me the better

2) Gaming Population - If I can't get any games in at your store, what good are you to me?

3) Gaming Events - Not required if the population is good and pick up games are easy to come by, but if the population is low then special events run by the store are critical

4) Stock or Willingness to Special Order - Lets face it, the stores want our money. I'd be willing to buy at full price but if all you have is 2 boxes of boys you better be willing to special order for me!

That's really the most important deal make/break issues. The staff being friendly and such is a nice plus too.

Thanks for all the responses so far folks, much of this is stuff I had already been thinking but it is great to get more input.

jah-joshua, I am familiar with the shortcomings of Bridgetown hobbies, but I wasn't aware of Grenadier Games, now i have another place to go hang out with the excuse of doing research.

Vulcan, nice point about not allowing gamers to be rude, even to each other while in the store. Obviously a bit of ribbing is fine but once you get loud and/or vulgar it stops being fun for the whole family, even if those the comments are directed at don't get offended, it was a wrinkle I hadn't thought.
Also, I totally don't expect to make bank, if I break even eventually I'll be happy.

Various of you made points about being well lit and not isolating players. This is always my preference but based on much of my experience with game stores I started to think I may have been in the minority.

I envision the place as very gamer focused, having nice tables for free play and regular events, I figure if people are comfortable hanging out, then purchasing stuff will follow.

I'm surprised no one mentioned this....

But in additional to all the great ideas so far, this one might be the toughest financially, but if you're in a hotbed of activity, it could sell your store to a lot of people. One word: Food.

Hear me out.

More often than not, the choice of where I'm going depends on where I can get a bite to eat before, during, or after my games, because me and my mates like to stuff our faces with some of the tastiest Mexican, Chinese, and BBQ that we can find. I think that a lot of people would love to be able to get their food IN the store, and quite frankly, it would almost be worth it to just go there during your lunch break and have some light nerd conversation over some Philly Cheese Steak and steak fries.

I can easily forgive "ghetto" conditions in a store as long as the staff is warm and inviting, the player-base is adequate, and there is an abundance of food nearby.

Just like armies march on their stomachs, so do nerds.

Food and drink is a big factor as well. I know that it is probably hard to find a place that is within walking distance to fast food options, but it can help keep players there longer. If I can play 2-3 hours, hop nextdoor to grab a bite to eat, and jump right back for another 2-3 hours of play then I am happy.

I also prefer a store to have a selection of pop/snack machines and I always make it a point to buy a couple sodas and a snack whenever I play to throw a couple extra bucks at the store. I know it is not much, but with 10-15 people playing you can make an extra 20 bucks a night.

I know deciding on which games to stock/support can be a chicken/egg game. If you don't stock it, then players won't come, but you don't know what to stock until you have players. Not really sure how to suggest anything there.

Tables: I usually play at two stores. One has 2 actual minature tables, the other has 6. The one with 2 has more long tables that can be covered with terrains, but only 2 that are at standing height. The smaller store has 6 tables (3 rows of 2 that are next to each other and can be used as a 12x4 table for apoc games) that are custom build, standing height, and have trays at the bottom to put models that are in reserve or casaulties. They also have a buttload of terrain, organized in multiple 3 drawer bins on wheels, with each labeled "craters, industrial, woods, rivers, etc...). As well as a selection of dice/templates/tape measures/etc, in case you left yours at home. It helps that all players take care of the terrain/tables and pitch in to clean up at the end of the night.

That store is mainly GW and Maulifax (sp?), but with their focus on that they support the heck out of it.

Staff that knows at least the basics is great. Some sort of loyalty incentive is great. I know that physical stores will have a hard time matching the 20-25% online discounts, but find some way to make it worth for the customer. My store gives frequent buyers enough of a discount to cancel the sales tax, and I usually always buy at least a box of something everytime I play (but I have a big "spend where you play" mindset, although I still get a lot of stuff from online places).

1) Space to play. I never thought I'd say this, but since myself and some friends started a club, the prime issue is does the place have enough space to play?

2) Proximity to main road and public transit. A huge issue in Chicago where many folks don't have a car, or just don't want to brave rush hour traffic for a 6:00 game time. I don't know the exact nature of PT in Portland, but I've been there a few times and if you are located near the Max/Train/Whatever-you-guys-call-it that can only be a good thing.

3) Friendliness. Our FLGS lets us use their table even though they don't sell much of what we play. We make a point of buying pop, dice and some games and special order-ing items, but we clearly don't drop as much $ as the 40k, PP, CCG folks, yet they are still very accomadating.

We've found all this in Chicagoland Games Dice Dojo. There was another store that we gamed at a few times. It had 1 and 3, and stocked much more of the games/miniatures we played, but it's location was such that many members just couldn't get their without alot of extra effort. Unfortunately that store just closed.

Also, I note that you are in Portland where there are already 2 established game stores. Why are you thinking of opening a store in there? I gather that there is a good gaming community there, but that sounds alot like market oversaturation to me. What about your business plan makes you confident that you can survive of 1/3 of the Portland gaming community pie?

Not trying to be a party pooper here. I wish there were more FLGS's everywhere, I'd just hate to see another one bite the dust.

hey Panopticon...

i actually got the name wrong yesterday, as it has been a while since i hung out at the shop...

it is Guardian Games down on SE 3rd, not Grenadier...
got it mixed up with the Last Grenadier in Cali...
woops...

here is the website:
http://ggportland.com/

good luck...
as a new business owner myself, i know it is a lot of hard work, or at least long hours of hanging out around the shop...
we just celebrated our first year with the surf shop here in sayulita, and although we did great, we are constantly looking to improve our business model and philosophy...
when we started the shop, it was all about collecting vintage boards to sell, but the rentals are where the steady money is at...
people like old boards, but they are not as willing to hand over big money on a collectors item, when they could spend less to ride a board for a week...
we have adapted to be more about having the best quality boards for people to rent, and the vintage stuff is there to bring people in to check out the place...
it turned out that the opposite of what we were thinking is better for business...

point is, be ready to be wrong...
observe and adapt...
don't cling too hard to one idea, just let the sales be your guide...
customers usually know what they want...

cheers
jah

Ooh, Guardian games, yeah that place is pretty cool.

Eilif, I am opening in Portland because I live here and don't want to live anywhere else.

Guardian is actually pretty darn close to the model I am thinking of, they really don't have a ton of WH40k there, but they carry pretty much anything you can want for tabletop gaming, which is my goal as well. My one issue with them is location, they are in what is essentially Portland's warehouse district tucked behind an Office Depot or something, they don't exactly attract foot traffic.

I don't expect to steal a lot of customers away from them, being located in a more residential area (but on a larger thoroughfare) I do expect to be more convenient and get a customer base of those who don't drive.

I figure at the worst, my store becomes a fun place for a year or two before closing due to not making any money, then I rethink the plan and try again.

The employees make the biggest difference. I have been at stores that has a rude employee and avoid that store due to that. However if a place has a friendly staff I try to support them.

Apart from the obvious stuff that people have already stated like hygiene, the two things for me are population and staff. For me, its a deal breaker when the staff acts like you should be thankful that they are getting up to help, or placing an order for you. Dont get me wrong, i am thankful when a person gets up from the desk to check their stock to see if an item i am looking for is in, but when they sigh deeply and say, "okay" very tiredly and resignedly, that makes me feel uncomfortable. I like to feel like the staff is happy that i am coming and spending money and time at there store, not that i should be feeling SO thankful and humble that they deign to let me enter and ask them something.

As for the population of the store, there are two issues. First, as has been previously mentioned, there is no point to hanging around a store when there is no one there to game with, kind of defeats the purpose. Also, and this is really the biggest point for me, i like a gaming the community that is welcoming. I used to go to a store, and when i first went there, there was the "this store clique" and they were pretty tightly knit, so much that i had problems finding a game or starting a conversation because no one in the group had any interest in interacting with anyone from out side their group. Its not like i expect them to rush over to me and start games and include me in everything, but it is really nice when a gaming actually makes you feel welcome. A great example of this is when you compare two stores, "the ****" and Battle Grounds Plainville Massachusetts. I had been going to the **** for around 2 years, and i was sort of in the "in crowd" but not completely, even though i was a regular for 2 and a bit years. Enter Battle grounds, i found this store was equidistant, so i decided to check it out. When i got there, there were 3 games going on. One was between some beautiful (well beautifully painted xD) plague marines and some amazing space wolves. I commented on how nice the armies were, and the 2 guys said thanks and started talking to me about how one had taught the other to paint. It was just a really pleasant atmosphere, and after being a patron of this store for only like 3 months, i already feel like a regular, and more welcome than at the ****.


In short, if you are in Mass, check out Battle grounds Plainville, its a gamer's paradise, and it has an awesome pizza place next door. They also have a location in Abbington, and as they are run by the same chill guy, id expect the same level of service.

1) Be polite, friendly and patient. This point cannot be stressed enough. I've noticed that at both of the two FLGS within 15 minutes of my house, there's a few people that work there that are either rude/dickish or just act completely indifferent to anyone in the store. This is one of the worst things for a business. If someone comes into your store, make sure to greet them and make them feel welcome, whether it's you or one of the people you hire to run the store. Maybe they hire people based on a games knowledge criteria rather than social skill, but even my favorite store has an donkey-cave who works there. And I'm not a problem customer at all- I asked a simple question about one of their sales when I was the only person in the store, and the guy snapped an answer back at me, and his excuse was he gets asked that a lot. That is no fething way to run a business, make sure your employees are kissing the ass of whoever is in the store, regardless of what I'm doing. The customer is ALWAYS right. On a good note, the owner is a great person, really nice, friendly and interesting.

2) The store always sells GW stuff 25% off: all the time, every item. Definitely keeps me coming there, regardless of the dick employee. But I would find myself browsing in the store and tempted to buy stuff more often if that dude wasn't there.

3) Odd sales every now and then. For instance, the place has a special for University of Michigan football games, if you come in during any game day wearing MI apparel you can buy one item and get a % off equal to how many points MI has at that time. You have to come in during the game, which means when MI is scoring 40-50 points, they must get swamped with customers for a good 30-45 minutes or so.

Anyways, here's the link to the store. Remember to hire employees who have great people skills and can stay patient and kiss ass all day long.

http://riwhobbies.net/

I think the attitude and atmosphere is the most important.
If the store gives off a feeling that its created by a gamer, for fellow gamers, many customers will flock to the place even if its inadequate in providing ( food, good location, ample gaming space, product discounts etc etc. )

Like my dad always says, advertisement through a happy customers > any other forms of ads.

Panopticon wrote:Pretty much what the topic says, I am in the process of securing funding and a plan for a gaming store that will hopefully open within a year in Portland, OR. And I wanted to get some feedback from people who play regularly who aren't me. What draws you in to a store? What turns you off? What hours do you prefer? Basically what would make you want to come and play at my place when it opens?

What draws me?

Stock. In particular, stock in games I play or are interested in.

Gaming tables do not interest me in a store (I haven't played in one in over 15 years and have no intention of ever returning to one to do so).
This is what out-of-store-clubs are for. In addition, beer is generally available at these alternate venues (can't play beer and pretzels games like 40k without beer).

What turns me off?
Hordes of smelly, unwashed, unkempt and generally unpleasant card-playing gamers.

Air con and nice tables.

Clean, good tables, good stock, and it has to have a great community of players and employees.

Friendly atmosphere. There's nothing worse then walking into a gaming store and getting the cold treatment/being an outsider vibe... this pertains to the staff and the regulars.

I'm tired from getting off of the usual 70 hour work week. (That's a hint by the way.) So I'll make some brief, scattered observations about opening a store, hopefully before my brain fries and I go paint plauge marines to repair it:

-Lots of what these guys point out is applicable.
-None of it matters if you can't stay in business.

You need a business plan, covering broad strokes and small details. You need a budget and an idea on your level of funding and where it's coming from. You need to be able to do your own books, pay your bills, and fill out tax forms.( or have an accountant do them.) You need to get the first store location correct in location, traffic, size, parking, walking to food/pubtrans, and in a part of town people don't mind going to. Location, location, location. You need fixtures, preferable used ones you recondition, and a lot more you'll build yourself. Go research slatwall, slatwall is your friend. It's a bitch to put up, great to have.

You need to give up your life for the first two years, and keep a smile on your face while you work your ass off to make the store profitable and a success. You may not game as much as you like. You won't sleep as much as you want to. Give up computer games. WOW or similar will smite your store like a thunderbolt of doom.

Accept help people give you. Don't trust that you'll get any help, and will need to do it all yourself. It's not fair when people/friends/relatives let you down, but the work still needs to get done.

Go learn about GAMA , and then go here http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=gamestore&nav=messages&msg=1129.1&prettyurl=%2Fgamestore%2Fmessages%2F%3Fmsg%3D1129%2E1
Read the old posts. Post your business plan when you get it. Watch us old farts tear it apart, laugh at it, and then teach you how to make it better. There are more forums to join once your store opens. GamesPro, ComicPro, GIN, etc.

Take a map of portland. Chart the locations of every store carrying comics, games, hobbies, and things you might carry.

Start looking at commercial realestate on the internet. Read the listings. Learn what Triple Net and Cam mean. Look up any other term you don't understand. This is practice, so don't get excited about a location until you are ready. Go visit some of the stores and waste a realators time. This is practice for talking to realators.

Go to E-Figures.com This will need to be one of your distributors.

Think about your website. Make your own if you know how. I waited 4 years while one person after another told me they were building it. Don't trust friends for this, hire a professional. Eventurally I decided to teach myself how to build my own: Showcasecomicsandgames.net
It's still a work in progress, but was built from the WEBs system. You can play with the webdesigner for free, try it out. I went through a couple before I found a system I liked using.

Find these people and ask for catalogs and or materials on getting an account: Alliance Game Distributors, ACD Distributors, WOTC, GamesWorkshop (Tell them Mike from Showcase sent you, I get a bounty that way ). I think Magazine Exchange is near you in Grants Pass, talk to them, good people, just too far away from me in shipping terms.

Research the best selling board games on boardgame geek. Play all the boardgames you can while you still have time.

Go work for GW for a few months. You'll learn a lot, and make some contacts that will help later.

Try to attend an Alliance or ACD warehouse day, or games summit.

Go to GenCon, do the retailers seminars.

Absolutely go to the GAMA tradeshow this year. April in Vegas. Best possible thing you could do.

tired..off to paint plauge marines.....

I'm tired just reading all that

I look for pure, unadulterated awesome.

If the staff are clean, professional, and know their stuff, I'll likely be a regular customer. With a large gaming space, plenty of tables, LOTS of terrain, and maybe some beverages for purchase, I'd be a regular gamer and customer.

Oddball thought.. but something that makes/breaks a game store for me.

Adequate restroom facilities. And make sure they are CLEAN, and not just "guy clean" ... you will get females in the store occasionally, donchaknow..

(and when I say adequate.. I mean, can 3 people use it at the same time... )

You can fit 3 people in one stall if they are willing to squeeze in a bit, what they don't do that where you are from?

Thank you all for your feedback, this is giving me a lot to think about.

mikhaila, the stuff you said wasn't exactly an answer to my question, however it does go a ways towards finding answers to a great many of my other questions, I will endeavor to do everything you suggested. I can't thank you enough for that heap of advice.

I find it interesting that clean and well lit are something that shows up on a lot of peoples lists, you guys are breaking the gamer stereotype here. I like it.

As others have said.

1. Clean- This is number one and for a reason. I do not wto spend the better part of a day standing in filth. I also do not want to have to come home and wash the slime off of me.

2. Polite staff (a la You) - I don't want to here people screaming F bombs across the room,or racial slurs and gay slurs. From time to time I bring my 4 year old in with me and I do not want him hearing that. That is the quickest way to lose my business. As far as staff, I like a quick Hi when I come in, and when I ask questions, I want to staff to at least pretend like they want to help me.

3. Product - Carry what I want to buy, or at least order it for me in a TIMELY manner. Nothing like having to wait 3-4 weeks because someone forgot to order it.

4. Location - I might carry my gun every where with me, but I don't want to have to carry it with me.

5. Gaming Space - Have at least a few tables that 40kers can use. Also decent terrain would be appreciated.

Well in all honesty my list is from the opinion of somebody who buys at the store more than games there. I didn't mention clean and well lit, because the uncleanliness of other customers is what keeps me away from gaming there...and the unfriendly vibes I get from some employees.

Clean, and by clean I mostly mean nice-smelling. A little clutter is fine, and part of the attraction. The hole-in-the-wall is more attractive to me than the national chain store. Our old game store was right down the hall from a head shop, and the thing I most remember is the smell of incense.

The staff should be friendly. If they're always trying to sell me something, I don't want to go. But if they want to tell me all about the various movies in which Charlton Heston is supposed to be a Christ-figure, and how badly Kimba the White Lion got ripped off by Disney, then I am much more enthused to spend my time there, and this honest rapport makes me trust their opinion on merchandise much more.

Cover a wide variety of games. CCGs probably make more money than any other kind of game, but other game types are important too.