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I have been playing Codex Marines since I started playing the game and was thinking of switching to BA for some different gameplay, I got Tactics, Dreadnoughts, bikes and drop pods. I can see a place for just about everything but I am wondering about my drop pods. Are they worth it in a BA list?

As far as I see they'll work the same as in my other marine list, drop two dreads turn one and the third comes in as DS allows, this sound good? I know I also have the option of Stormraven but I already got my pods so my not use them?

Works fine in BA definitely, Assault Squads get them for free.
We can also have a lot more Dreadnoughts.

A friend of mine ran something like this:


HQ –
Librarian (Shield, Lance) – 100

Elite –
Furioso – Blood Talons - 125
Drop Pod - 35
Furioso – Blood Talons - 125
Drop Pod - 35
Sanguinary Priest x2 – 100

Troop –
Assault Marine x10 – PF, MG x2 – 235
Drop Pod
Assault Marine x10 – PF, MG x2 - 235
Drop Pod
Assault Marine x10 – PW, Flamer x2 - 215
Drop Pod
Assault Marine x5 – MG x1 – 110
Drop Pod
Assault Marine x5 – MG x1 – 110
Drop Pod
Assault Marine x5 – MG x1 – 110
Drop Pod

Heavy-
Dreadnought – TL-AC x2 -120
Drop Pod – 35
Dreadnought – TL-AC x2 -120
Drop Pod – 35
Dreadnought – TL-AC x2 -120
Drop Pod – 35

2000

Since pods only fit 10, Libby and Priest would have to come in with the smaller squads.
With 11 pods, 5 Dreads can all arrive on the same time, along with a squad of assault marines.

Go for tactical squads rather than drop podding assault squads. Assault squads are useless without jump packs.
Combimelta+melta first turn then multimelta+melta the second.

Always run drop pod armies with some form of long ranged attack. As you can be easily caught out for example if the opponent goes full reserve.

MFletch wrote:Go for tactical squads rather than drop podding assault squads. Assault squads are useless without jump packs.
Combimelta+melta first turn then multimelta+melta the second.

Always run drop pod armies with some form of long ranged attack. As you can be easily caught out for example if the opponent goes full reserve.

That's hardly true, each assault squad packs two special weapons, better than just one you are getting from tacs. They obviously would fare better in assault, which happens often when you are dropping next to the enemy.
Besides, if you want to run tacs, you are better off running SW, whose tacs are better than anyone else's.

Any unit that charges tactical squads will charge assault squads with very similar results, 7 extra st4 attacks will not change much. It will be the enemy's choice which units end up in cc if you are on foot, mostly he'll avoid assault marines if they well that dangerous.

However having 8 bolters instead of bolt pistols means the enemy can not run away and you can cut into infantry units.
special+combi then special+heavy should match 2 specials.

If you are drop podding BA you are doing it for the extras like FNP, dreads and DoA units to provide mobility. Yes, space wolves are a better drop pod army.

I plan on drop podding a DC dread and a devastator squad in my BA list, and possibly one for a tac squad to sit on an objective.

nectarprime wrote:I plan on drop podding a DC dread and a devastator squad in my BA list, and possibly one for a tac squad to sit on an objective.

podding a Dev squad is a bad idea, they can't fire heavy weapons the turn they drop so theyre sitting ducks for a turn.

Not only that but you want Odd number pods, to maximize drop pod assault.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Not only that but you want Odd number pods, to maximize drop pod assault.

If you have to drop half then half, why is odd number pods necessary?

severedblue wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Not only that but you want Odd number pods, to maximize drop pod assault.

If you have to drop half then half, why is odd number pods necessary?

It's half, round up, so if you have 5 pods you drop 3 on first turn.

Jackster wrote:

severedblue wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Not only that but you want Odd number pods, to maximize drop pod assault.

If you have to drop half then half, why is odd number pods necessary?

It's half, round up, so if you have 5 pods you drop 3 on first turn.

I see this advice being given quite often and I can't stress enough how problematic it is for a Drop Pod based list (as opposed to a list with a single Pod). The assumption here is that you want to take an odd number of Pods, and thus increase the number of units you can Drop turn 1 to maximise your alpha strike. The problem is that in a competitive environment against any half decent player most of the time you DON'T want all that stuff to come down first turn at all, its actually the biggest weakness of Pod based lists. If you are facing an army with good bubble wrap and/or high redundancy they castle up, make good use of terrain and your alpha strike gets absorbed, at which point get hit with a counter-attack and you are facing a seriously up hill battle the rest of the game with an army which has lost/wasted its main benefit. Against an army with high mobility and/or reserves manipulation then they can just null deploy (completely reserve), leaving you to drop into an empty field, which completely negates your alpha strike rather than simply absorbing it, and is even worse for you in this case since you are forced to drop an extra unit. Again you are well and truly on the back foot to start with. Also if you are ever going first in DoW then you have lost any advantages your army has by default, even without proper reserves.

In practice what you actually want is the ability to drop nothing if you are facing an empty field or a well castled army, and have heavy hitters arrive later, while maintaining the ability to pull off the turn 1 Alpha strike if you can get it. You do this by taking Pods for units which really have no use for them, like Devastators, Riflemen Dreads and Thunderfire Cannons, and taking an EVEN number of Pods. These are all fire support units, so just deploy normally (they can use the Pods in DoW if its easier). This means that if you can't get the alpha strike you want then you just drop a heap of empty Pods in to control movement and generally frustrate you opponent. You still have your heavy hitters to come and actually have some fire support as well. So against castled armies you are now a) forcing them to remain boxed in if they want to avoid damage which gives you board control (without actually having any threats on the board) and more influence in objective games and b) have some long ranged fire support, so can start picking the castle apart anyway. Against null deployments you now a) get your army into good positions early, and don't automatically come in before him, which allows you to hit him before he hits you (which is the aim with Pods in general) and b) have fire support, which means he can't hide if he does come on, you are always going to be able to hit him. If you get the opportunity then you just Drop you filled Pods in his face and have the empty Pods come in later to contest objectives and be annoying. Being able to freely choose which half shows up turn one will give your opponent headaches. The only real downside is that you can give up some free killpoints, but in practice its hardly different from any Pod list, the number of Pods stays similar and they are always going to be easy to kill. The other factor is that you lose control of when the filled Pods arrive, which is a major factor which both your opponent (has to be able to deal with your heavy hitters arriving, but he doesn't know when) and you (they might not arrive till turn 5). It isn't ideal but Marines don't get reserve manipulation so there isn't much you can do besides trying to make it a positive rather than a handicap. Compared with added ability to compete against anything with a true all comers list they are pretty minor downsides tbh.

While that's true, why does that make odd number pods a terrible idea? If you want to drop empty, you can still drop empty, you'll just have 1 more empty pod on the field than normal.
You do also want to have the ability to have your whole army on the field first turn if needed. (By dropping empty pods in subsequent turns)

Regardless, I'd found some interesting list idea from reading this thread

How about:

HQ –
Librarian (Shield, Lance) – Jump Pack - 125

Elite –
Furioso – Blood Talons - 125
Drop Pod - 35
Furioso – Blood Talons - 125
Drop Pod - 35
Sanguinary Priest x2 – Jump Pack - 150

Troop –
Assault Marine x10 – PF, MG x2 – 235
Assault Marine x10 – PF, MG x2 – 235
Assault Marine x10 – PW, Flamer x2 - 215
Tactical Marine x 10 – MG, ML, Combi-Melta - 185
Drop Pod - 35


Heavy-
Dreadnought – TL-AC -120
Drop Pod – Locator Beacon - 45
Dreadnought – TL-AC -120
Drop Pod – Locator Beacon – 45
Dreadnought – TL-AC -120
Drop Pod – Locator Beacon – 45

2000

6 pods, if I want to drop in empty I ll do it with the riflemen's pods, the locator helps both my DoA and Pod units.
Conversely, I can drop 3 full pods first turn, pod the 3 empty ones later and deploy assault marines and Riflemen on the field.

Because if you want to be able to drop half empty having an uneven number of units doesn't work. If for example I have 9 Pods, 5 of them with units and 4 of them empty, then its impossible to drop nothing turn 1, you have to drop a unit by itself. If you have 4 with units and 5 of them empty then you are just wasting points, it serves absolutely no purpose to have an empty Pod for the sake of having an empty Pod. Better off taking a Rhino for that unit, or a hundred different other ways to spend 35pts.

This is a Pod list I wrote for nilla Marines, primarily to scary the crap out of myself as a 'worst case scenario' type exercise. Its off table threat is insanely powerful, on the drop you have a very good chance of killing 4 vehicles (possibly 6, as Vortex is very powerful as well and the Libby can go solo thanks to the SS), or can split the Heavy Flamers + Avenger Libby all into one combat squad and pop 2 vehicles and toast the contents. On top of that it still has a large core of scoring units and good fire support. It does however have Rhinos, so strictly speaking its not a pure Pod list in that sense. It can be run pretty much the exact same way with BA, the Devastators are a bit cheaper and the Librarians are slightly more expensive but that's about it in terms of points. I would however change it around a bit with BA, beyond the obvious need to take different powers (Blood Lance being the obvious one, but no Null Zone is a pain) you really need to boost your combat ability slightly, since you can't Combat Tactics out and keep shooting.

Librarian, Terminator Armour, Storm Shield, Vortex, Avenger
140pts

Librarian, Terminator Armour, Storm Shield, Vortex, Null Zone
140pts

10 Sternguard, 2 Heavy Flamers, 8 Combi Meltas
310pts

Drop Pod
35pts

10 Sternguard, 2 Heavy Flamers, 8 Combi Meltas
310pts

Drop Pod
35pts

5 Devastators, 4 Missile Launchers
150pts

Drop Pod
35pts

5 Devastators, 4 Missile Launchers
150pts

Drop Pod
35pts

Tactical Squad, Missile Launcher, Meltagun, Combi Melta
185pts

Rhino
35pts

Tactical Squad, Missile Launcher, Meltagun, Combi Melta
185pts

Rhino
35pts

Tactical Squad, Missile Launcher, Meltagun, Combi Melta
185pts

Rhino
35pts

I think you'll understand Powerguy's remarks once someone pulls a similar anti pod move on you.

I usually get around it by having some cheap and then some expensive pods. You put down a useless pods if you do not have a target at that moment.

This is common, you go against BA's DoA or even against nids you do not want to get close to them.

Personally, I've always theorised that a medium-sized DC squad in a pod would work quite well.

7-8 Death Company, a Powerfist or 2 and I think they could work quite well. They'd be right in your opponents lines (where you want DC to be) and are the kind of threat that your opponent has to deal with or stay away from - but then they'd be forced more towards your main force - otherwise should the DC reach assault, things will get messy.
Just always something I've thought anyways, I can't say whether it'd work or not, but it seems like a sound tactic to me...

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

nectarprime wrote:I plan on drop podding a DC dread and a devastator squad in my BA list, and possibly one for a tac squad to sit on an objective.

podding a Dev squad is a bad idea, they can't fire heavy weapons the turn they drop so theyre sitting ducks for a turn.

Not only that but you want Odd number pods, to maximize drop pod assault.

What other options do I have for them? A Rhino doesn't seem like a good idea, and footslogging them doesn't either.

Good thread. Nice stuff, particularly Powerguy & Jackster.