Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So there was a rules dispute with a player at out FLGS and it comes from a known TFG. He is saying that on infiltrating a model you have to be more then 12 inches away out of line of sight and more then 18 inches away in line of sight. Basically saying that you have to be 12.1 inches away so there is no chance a unit that infiltrated can assault without fleet. Everyone else at the store has read this as you have to be 12 inches away or 18 inches away.

He is also saying that a transport can only move 5.9999999999 inches before it is moving at cruising speed and can only fire one gun and that if it moves a full 6 inches it has moved at cruising speed.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Redhat wrote:So there was a rules dispute with a player at out FLGS and it comes from a known TFG. He is saying that on infiltrating a model you have to be more then 12 inches away out of line of sight and more then 18 inches away in line of sight. Basically saying that you have to be 12.1 inches away so there is no chance a unit that infiltrated can assault without fleet. Everyone else at the store has read this as you have to be 12 inches away or 18 inches away.

He is also saying that a transport can only move 5.9999999999 inches before it is moving at cruising speed and can only fire one gun and that if it moves a full 6 inches it has moved at cruising speed.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Its not 12,1 18,1 etc its 12, 18.

Combat speed is up to 6" (BRB p57) Cruising speed is more than 6" so he is wrong with his rules in this instance.

He is correct about Infiltrate: the BRB p75 says that you must set up more than 12" away and more than 18" away depending on LoS.

So while he may be TFG he is correct about the rules sometimes.

well the rules for infiltrating state that you must be 12" out of sight and 18" in sight. Thats all, i don't know where he gets this 12.1 crap.

Also the rules for moving vehicles say "up to" 6" nothing more or less. not 5.999999. it says 6". you want my advice? tell him he is TFG and don't play him anymore. What a douchebag.

Edit: apparently it does say "more than 12" and "more than 18" But the cruising speed has to be MORE than 6" so yeah, he may be half right but still full of douchebagery.

bazookatooth check your rulebook. The TFG is correct about the infiltrate rules and you are not.

Redhat wrote:Everyone else at the store has read this as you have to be 12 inches away or 18 inches away.

'Everyone else at the store' should pick up their rulebook and actually read it.

The specific wording is 'more than 12 inches,' 'more than 18 inches.' It's not 12.1 exactly, nor is it12.0000001, but whatever the distance is, it's more than 12 inches. That's why if a unit infiltrates 18 inches away from another unit, and then moves 6 inches, runs 6 inches, and assaults six inches, it doesn't matter what the ruler says, the assault fails because the rules forced them to start more than 18 inches away.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:bazookatooth check your rulebook. The TFG is correct about the infiltrate rules and you are not.

already corrected myself, thanks.

Portugal Jones wrote:

Redhat wrote:Everyone else at the store has read this as you have to be 12 inches away or 18 inches away.

'Everyone else at the store' should pick up their rulebook and actually read it.

The specific wording is 'more than 12 inches,' 'more than 18 inches.' It's not 12.1 exactly, nor is it12.0000001, but whatever the distance is, it's more than 12 inches. That's why if a unit infiltrates 18 inches away from another unit, and then moves 6 inches, runs 6 inches, and assaults six inches, it doesn't matter what the ruler says, the assault fails because the rules forced them to start more than 18 inches away.

+1

The whole 12.00000000000000000000000000001 thing is that while you put the minatures MORE THAN 12 inches away, due to the ruler, human error, swamp gas reflecting off of venus and the will of the emperor it might appear than you can get a first turn assault. You cannot.

He's right about infiltraters cause if you set up at 12" you are within 12"

However he's wrong on the 5.9 recuring you can move 6" if he kicks up a fuss explain to him how 0.9 recuring =1 or that cruising speed includes 6", I myself would go with numbers it annoys them more.

Phototoxin wrote:

Portugal Jones wrote:

Redhat wrote:Everyone else at the store has read this as you have to be 12 inches away or 18 inches away.

'Everyone else at the store' should pick up their rulebook and actually read it.

The specific wording is 'more than 12 inches,' 'more than 18 inches.' It's not 12.1 exactly, nor is it12.0000001, but whatever the distance is, it's more than 12 inches. That's why if a unit infiltrates 18 inches away from another unit, and then moves 6 inches, runs 6 inches, and assaults six inches, it doesn't matter what the ruler says, the assault fails because the rules forced them to start more than 18 inches away.

+1

The whole 12.00000000000000000000000000001 thing is that while you put the minatures MORE THAN 12 inches away, due to the ruler, human error, swamp gas reflecting off of venus and the will of the emperor it might appear than you can get a first turn assault. You cannot.

unless of course you have Fleet, Yay genestealers!

The first point is correct. Infiltrating does use the term 'more than', so you can't start exactly 12" away from something.

However, the person is wrong about vehicle movement. Cruising speed is defined as 'more than 6" and up to 12"'. So if you move exactly 6" then you are still at combat speed.

He's right - an infiltrating unit should never be able to get a first turn assault without fleet. You're required to deploy *more than* 12 inches away outside of LOS (or 18" in LOS)., which means no assault without fleet. He's just assigning a numerical value to "more than".

Or they are JI. Shrkes unit comes to mind.

Sorry - yes. JI or Beasts will be able to.. anything that either assaults 12 or moves 12.

Some more people should learn that it is good net-etiquette to read the thread to the end before answering.

Steelmage99 wrote:Some more people should learn that it is good net-etiquette to read the thread to the end before answering.

Yes - it's absolutely unpossible that I had the page open for a while before I was able to respond. I will get an auto-refresh plugin to make sure I don't offend you with repetitive correct answers anymore.

Wow. Hit a sore spot, did I?

Steelmage99 wrote:Wow. Hit a sore spot, did I?

You've already given him advice as to the correct behavior. Now you're just making yourself look bad.

@Redhat: if you're entire store is in disagreement with one guy on the rules, and he is (at least sometimes) correct, you really need to take a look at your own behavior before you start calling someone a TFG.

willydstyle wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Wow. Hit a sore spot, did I?

You've already given him advice as to the correct behavior. Now you're just making yourself look bad.

@Redhat: if you're entire store is in disagreement with one guy on the rules, and he is (at least sometimes) correct, you really need to take a look at your own behavior before you start calling someone a TFG.

Thank you for your observation. I am not going to argue with you over this because you don't know him and it would be pointless. If I am going to call someone a TFG, then they deserve it.

Redhat wrote:So there was a rules dispute with a player at out FLGS and it comes from a known TFG. He is saying that on infiltrating a model you have to be more then 12 inches away out of line of sight and more then 18 inches away in line of sight. Basically saying that you have to be 12.1 inches away so there is no chance a unit that infiltrated can assault without fleet. Everyone else at the store has read this as you have to be 12 inches away or 18 inches away.

He is also saying that a transport can only move 5.9999999999 inches before it is moving at cruising speed and can only fire one gun and that if it moves a full 6 inches it has moved at cruising speed.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I like how you paint this pretty picture that this guy is TFG, becuase you say so, when hes the one following the correct rules.

Now i dont know you or him, but maybe you should revaluate both him and yourself. If you have a rules discussion with this guy and think "Hes trying to BS me becuase he is TFG" you are letting your pre convicted notions rule your logic.

Summary:

Infiltrators and scouts must remain more than 12" away. This means that the only units with fleet, that can move or assault more than 6", or have non-round bases can get a first turn assault.

Vehicles can move exactly 6" and still be combat speed. (Although, I'd point out that you lack the equipment to accurately measure exactly 6". And, if you could, Heisenberg would make your model completely disappear.)


Now, let's all calm down, stop name-calling and stop insulting people. The rules are complicated and sometimes we all get things wrong. (I've even seen nos be wrong on a few occasions )

Bla_Ze wrote:

Redhat wrote:So there was a rules dispute with a player at out FLGS and it comes from a known TFG. He is saying that on infiltrating a model you have to be more then 12 inches away out of line of sight and more then 18 inches away in line of sight. Basically saying that you have to be 12.1 inches away so there is no chance a unit that infiltrated can assault without fleet. Everyone else at the store has read this as you have to be 12 inches away or 18 inches away.

He is also saying that a transport can only move 5.9999999999 inches before it is moving at cruising speed and can only fire one gun and that if it moves a full 6 inches it has moved at cruising speed.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I like how you paint this pretty picture that this guy is TFG, becuase you say so, when hes the one following the correct rules.

Now i dont know you or him, but maybe you should revaluate both him and yourself. If you have a rules discussion with this guy and think "Hes trying to BS me becuase he is TFG" you are letting your pre convicted notions rule your logic.

Except he is not following the rules. Granted, we got the infiltrate wrong, but that doesn't make him right either.

Your wrong and he's wrong ... it happens. It doesn't make him TFG, any more then you are. What you should have both done is checked.

You are correct. This is not the reason he is a TFG. There are many many many many many other reasons that make him this that I am not going to get into right now. This is why I came to the forums and asked the question to begin with to get the correct answer. I was hoping that mentioning that he is a TFG would help in giving me some advice on how to approach him with the results of this thread.

Redhat wrote:You are correct. This is not the reason he is a TFG. There are many many many many many other reasons that make him this that I am not going to get into right now. This is why I came to the forums and asked the question to begin with to get the correct answer. I was hoping that mentioning that he is a TFG would help in giving me some advice on how to approach him with the results of this thread.

... Well checking the rules is a good thing. You would have found out he was right that you need to be +12" (or +18") and that he was wrong about movement speeds for tanks.

Telling us he's TFG without any other information just make you sound bad. Next time I'd just stick to the rules question.

Redhat wrote:If I am going to call someone a TFG, then they deserve it.

Oh, well, calling someone names is ok if it's true...

Wait, no it's not. It's still name-calling, and really doesn't add anything to your point.

I would recommend in future just sticking to the actual rules issue. The personality traits and/or failings of the person you're arguing with make no difference to the rules of the game.


Since the original questions have both been answered and this thread is in danger of wandering off into places it really doesn't need to go, I think we're done here.