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This is draft two of my Lizardmen list. I'm still not quite sure what I'm doing here - I'm not even quite sure of the rules, except in that I'm familiar with 40k - but I think I'm getting the hang of it. This is a 2,000 points list - the smallest points value that anyone in my FLGS plays. I'll probably end up building at least 2,500 points, in the end, but this will do for now. As a beginner, I'm really interested in your comments and concerns.

Before you read the list, I also have a number of specific questions:
1) Have I made any rookie mistakes? Am I paying points for anything that is totally worthless?
2) Less disastrously, am I pouring too many points into anything that, while neat, belongs in higher points-value lists?
3) How is my trooper-to-upgrade ratio? Am I under-staffed and over-equipped, over-staffed and under-equipped, or just right?
4) How's my magic. The magic game is part of what drew me to Warhammer Fantasy - and the Lizardmen in particular - and I want to make sure that I can do well in that portion of the game.
5) How is my ranged support? I want to make sure that my saurus can reach combat. Are my skinks and chameleon skinks sufficient to get my saurus into melee, or will I need more ranged power?
6) I understand that the chameleon skinks have special rules that allow them to crop up in weird places and slow down my enemy's advance. That's why I bought them. Are they equipped to do this?

Lords

* Slaan Mage-Priest w/Diadem of Power (Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination)

Heroes

* Saurus Scar-Veteran w/Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent, Shield
* Skink Priest (Level 2) on a Ancient Stegadon w/Weapon of the Gods
* Skink Priest (Level 2)

Core

* 20 Saurus Warriors w/Hand Weapon, Shield (1 Champion, 1 Musician, 1 Standard Bearer)
* 20 Saurus Warriors w/Hand Weapon, Shield (1 Champion, 1 Musician, 1 Standard Bearer)
* 16 Skinks w/Hand Weapon, Javelin, Shield (1 Brave, 1 Musician, 1 Standard Bearer), 1 Kroxigor

Special

* 10 Temple Guard w/Halberd, Hand Weapon, Light Armor (1 Revered Guardian w/Burning Blade of Chotec, 1 Musician, 1 Standard Bearer w/Totem of Prophesy)
* 10 Chameleon Skinks w/Hand Weapon, Blowpipe (1 Stalker)

Few things just quickly.

Scar Veteran needs to be the BSB... or you can probably get rid of him and let the Slaan be the BSB.

Dont think having non-skirmisher skinks is worth it if your only going to field 1 Kroxigor. 3 Krox is usually the magic number for 'Skinkrox' units...

10 Temple Guard aint enough... find room for at least 20 to protect the Slaan.

The Chameleon Skinks could possibly be split into two units of 5 for a bit more maneuverability... either way tho they dont need the Stalker.

I'll let other people critique the Hero's a bit more as I have little knowledge of Lizardmen character builds.

Biggest problems in my opinion (in order of importance):
-Too many points spent on hero choices (over 25%).
-No Battle Standard Bearer (Slann should be the BSB).
-Overinvestment in Magic for the points level (Slann and Engine of the Gods is just too much points at this level, need at least 2400+ game).
-Temple Guard unit is too small to protect the Slann Mage-Priest.
-Too much focus on main combat units (2x Saurus, 1x Skink-Kroxigor, 1x Temple Guard). I would advise dropping one of the units in favor of more support (Skink Skirmishers, Salamanders).
-Skink-Kroxigor unit is too small to be a tarpit and doesn't contain enough Kroxigor to be a hammer. Currently has no role. Even when set-up correctly (big Skink unit for tarpit, or at least 3 Kroxigor in the unit for hammer), this unit will never be as effective as Saurus Warriors (HW and Shield for tarpit or Spears and Scar Veterans for hammer).
-Chameleon Skinks are harassment units and should probably be fielded in minimum size units (without Champions).
-Chosen Magic Items are useless in some cases. Mainly the Totem of Prophecy (always bad for the points) and the Diadem of Power (bad in a Magic heavy list) are a waste.

That's some great advice... I just have a meager understanding of lizzies. But I can probably compartmentalize what I learned while researching them as my possible next army.

Slaan at 2k probably isn't going to work out. But if you are going to push through to 2400-2500 very quickly then definitely acquire a slain and temple guard. 8th edition magi pores are powerful, powerful enough to actually create lists around. By far the most loved lore for lizardmen is life. Learn those spells and build around them. Make sure your list can still function after a freak dimensional cascade, but the guy who leverages his magic phase better usually always wins. Looking at life lore, you should immediately see the combo of throne of vines and the toughness augment (forgot what it was called). Abusing this combo is what makes lizardmen one of the best "grinders" in the game. If you don't feel like grinding you can run a temple-star. 30 temple guard holding the slaan. Obviously, that is an "all eggs one basket" approach. And skillful use of redirectors will ruin your plans.

Otherwise, 25mm super-infantry prefer to default to be 6 wide. That allows them to not lose any front rank attacks. So you'll tend to see 18 strong units as default.

I don't know why yet, but a pretty clear majority of lizards prefer hand weapon over spear. I can see the pluses and minuses. The spears are only 8 more attacks on an unwounded unit, and only if you didn't charge, and the hand weapon does give you a 6++. and it's cheaper.

Without going too deep into why, salamanders and chameleon skinks are very well thought of. Chameleons should be min size. And so should salamanders (until you have two and want a third obviously).

There are also players who have success with skinkrox. In fact. At 2k points, an "all skink" army can be great. All skink covers a lot really. Kroxigors, salamanders and stegadons.

This along with the great advice you already received, should help you dial in that list you posted.

Here's Draft Four, based partly on the advice I've received here and elsewhere. I'm actually happier with this list in some ways. Although I'll miss the Engine of the Gods, I enjoy the idea of getting to build three different kinds of dinosaur (not counting the Lizardmen themselves).

Same specific questions. Also, in general, how am I doing? Warmer? Hot? Colder? Dead in the water?

Lords

* Slaan Mage Priest w/2 Disciplines of the Ancients (Focus of Mysteries, The Focused Rumination), Itxi Grubs - 350pts

Heroes

* Saurus Scar-Veteran (BSB) w/Great Weapon, Haunchi's Blessed Totem, Light Armor - 146pts
* Skink Priest (Level 2) w/Cube of Darkness, Hand Weapon - 140pts

Core

* 24 Saurus Warriors w/Shield, Spear, Full Command - 338pts
* 10 Skink Skirmishers w/Blowpipe, Hand Weapon, 1 Brave - 76pts
* 10 Skink Skirmishers w/Blowpipe, Hand Weapon, 1 Brave - 76pts

Special

* 16 Temple Guard w/Halberd, Hand Weapon, Light Armor, Shield, Full Command (inc. Burning Blade of Chotec, Sun Standard of Chotec) - 351pts
* 4 Terradon Riders w/Hand Weapons, Javelin, 1 Brave - 130pts
* Stegadon w/Giant Bow - 235pts

Rare

* Salamander Hunting Pack w/2 Salamnders, 5 Skinks - 155pts

Looks a lot better already.

But... Ill say again, drop the braves from the skink units, you dont need them.

Dont bother giving the Temple Guard champion a magic weapon and drop the Sun Standard from the unit as well. These guys are enough of a points sink as they are.

The only other change I would recommend is making the Slaan the BSB and leaving the Scar-Vet with the Saurus to wreak havoc. You don't want your BSB being killed in a challenge.

With the points you've saved bump up the Temple Guard to 20 and possibly get the Skink Priest a ward save just in case...

List has improved significantly. Remaining problems:
-Not enough Core. You need at least 500 points (25%) and you have 490?
-Slann Mage-Priest should be the BSB. Currently, your BSB can be attacked in close combat and only has a 4+ Armour Save and 2 Wounds. You want your BSB to survive as long as possible, which the Slann Mage-Priest is probably better at.
-Support and harassment units are better (per points cost) when they are minimum size. Skink Skirmishers shouldn't have a Brave, Terradons should be 3 in a unit and without a Brave, Salamanders should be split into two units.
-Investment in Magic Items that aren't worth their points. Of all Magic Items in the Lizardmen Armybook, I would only look at Burning Blade of Chotec (put on a Scar Veteran for better use), Cupped Hands of the Old Ones and Cube of Darkness.
-If you can find the points, Becalming Cogitation is a brilliant Discipline to add to the ones you already have.

I'll just jump right to the most updated draft.

I agree with Airmaniac about the BSB. With the Slann as the BSB it will be safe for (hopefully) the entire battle, while with a Vet you are sure to lose it. Also, while the Itxi Grubs are a fine item, they are something for a support Slann (in high high point games), being an Arcane item they are taking up your slot for the Cupped Hands. Cupped Hands is easily one of the best items in the book. Discounting a miscast and dealing massive damage to the enemy wizard is a huge plus. A magic standard for the Slann is optional, but then go with the one that makes enemy wizards stupid. Focus of Mystery has not sold me this ed. as you don't REALLY need every spell in any of the Lores and doubles lets you pick. I would go with Cogitation for more defense; it will help a lot as you will only have one Scroll in the Cube of Darkness.

You can keep the Vet if you want, but keep him cheap with the BBoC and E. Shield or GW and Venom (L. Armor, too, of course).

Don't bother with a second level on the Priest, the Slann is going to use all the dice most of the time. The Cube is a great item, just be careful when you use it, as it will take out your RiP spells, too.

Spears are a matter of opinion, I have taken preference to HW and Shield. The Parry 6+Sv is nice, and overall I have had better luck; plus, they were thrust back into 7th ed "Predatory Fighters" with the supporting attacks rule and I am bitter (even if they do get that third rank). I also don't go with champs, they lend themselves to giving away Overkill combat res as Saurus champs aren't as good as other unit champs in WHF. If you do go with Spears, take a unit seven wide and three deep to maximize attacks against units five wide.
You can also bump your SS up to three units of ten to get over the 25% minimum core req. and for more utility.


Please drop the Braves. They are never useful, ever. Really. You can trust me on that...

The TG do well with a FC. I do often use the Sun Standard but at 2k points it is questionable. If the Vet goes in the TG unit take the Iron Curse Icon instead of a weapon. If the Vet doesn't, it's between Venom or BBoC (which ever the Vet doesn't). 20 Saurus in this unit is also a good option, like alex87 mentioned.

The Terradons did better in fours in the last ed. Four have a place, but at higher points. Drop the Brave. The alternative is a unit of Chameleon Skinks which are huge in the ed. A unit (or two) of five to eight is worth it's weight in blood for mighty Sotek.

Watch the Stegadon, it is a huge fire magnet as they cause so many problems last ed. I prefer CoC as flank chargers (five to six with a muso) or a unit of Kroxigor (even if they aren't S5...).

Split the Sallies and (if you can) take an extra handler. I can't tell you the number of times it has saved me from that dreaded 5/6 roll on a D3 misfire.