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I'm working on a Renegade Guard project... but I am torn. Very torn. Amazingly torn. This is not meant to be 'competitive' - hell , the entire army would only fit in Apoc and in the end will be well more than 8,000 points.

But I would like to use a codex that best represents my needs for when I do play 'normal' scale games (not tournament) of 2500 or less... The Forgeworld Vraskian Renegade 'codex' vs. Codex: Imperial Guard.


Quick over-view of my 'fluff'

Several cults dedicated to various chaos gods in a word bearers pantheon style (nurgle platoon, khorne platoon, etc. Each platoon is a separate theme;

Conscripts are traitors to their own regiments, given shiny new red armor, and sent out to prove themselves- only when they gain favor of the 'church' or the gods, do they join a cult;

Dark mechanicus present with high tech provided (annihilator like lemans, men of iron lobotomised bodies slaved to a priest, etc.);

Astartes seen as angels of the gods, like imperial cult. Imperial Astartes are demons.

Very established renegades. Not a single world uprising. Organized politics, church, and military. Some cults of the church more "chaotic"(nurgle zombies) and some cults more organized (generic lost and the damned guardsmen)

P.S. - Running 630 Guardsmen in my 'final' product, not counting spec/heavy/elite/CHQ/fast units/models. Just PHQ, PTroop, and PScript

FW Renegades (PDF on their site.)
PRO Chaos Renegade themed unit options
PRO Chaos Marines with Rhinos/Dreadclaws, Alpha Legion!!! at that
PRO Ogryns that sometimes might not suck in CQC (as much!)
PRO Workers Rabble - delicious theme-unit!
PRO Sabre weapon platforms!
PRO HEAVY STUBBERS!!!!
PRO MINEFIELDS!
PRO Off-map artillery
CON Far fewer models to be fielded
CON D6+4 Leadership (while I think this is good for character...imagine keeping up with 50+ squads in apoc...)
CON Fewer artillery and armor, no Colossus (I don't like running lots of armor, but I do have Colossus siege mortars.)
CON No chimeras for main platoons (A few here and there for theme, not a chimera-spam army.)
CON No conscripts with Chenkov (Waves of neophyte renegades out to prove themselves are a major theme to my project-- but workers rabble is a nice trade off...)
CON Workers rabble is a troop choice (...or not?)
CON No Tech Priests (Dark Mechanicus is in my fluff)


Codex: Imperial Guard
PRO Everything that is a Con above? Totally in the codex...
PRO Straken makes an excellent 'leading' Chaos Marine (The Angels are with us, brothers!)
PRO Can use Hades drill from Krieg dex for veterans (2nd army list will be vets.)
PRO Conscripts with Chenkov.
PRO Plenty of room for options, count-as-rules, and otherwise.
CON No squads of Marines. I can live with that...but yeah.
CON No heavy stubbers for squads (WHY GOD WHY?! THIS MAKES NO SENSE!)
CON Ogryns have guns- makes operating FW ones without guns frustrating.
CON No emplacements.

Final comment: In a project this large, I could acquire my marines via Apoc games, along with demons...but this does not help much for standard play.

Current "standard play" list has the following.
CHQ - Basic Bare Bones
6x Platoons - 1 PHQ, 2 Squad, 50 Conscripts
---Chenkov in there^
---Meltas everywhere^
With room for artillery or two tanks...sporting over 450 models

All within 2500 points. Mostly just meant to prove Chenkov Conscripts are the ultimate trolls in table-top...but fun to "prove how fanatic" the renegades are. Throwing endless waves of neophytes upon the enemy's guns. Not meant to be my regular force mind you.

Ggenerally if you are going for a more fluffy build, I'd say take the vraks codex and add in what you want from the regular dex to top of it. For fluffy and non competitive games I don't think people will mind as much.

Sunoccard wrote:Ggenerally if you are going for a more fluffy build, I'd say take the vraks codex and add in what you want from the regular dex to top of it. For fluffy and non competitive games I don't think people will mind as much.

Very true. Problem is my store has a lot of morons who like to scream and whine when something isn't "codex" - I'll seriously have a hard time fielding anything that even looks non-tourny-legal even in friendly games.

I once had a 6x8 table comprised of paper taped down. On this paper was a complex map. Me and a friend wanted to play a "boarding action" 40k game. NOT space hulk, but literrally, boarding action, narrow combat. (Note, Flame Throwers are over-powered here, as we learned...) - Anyways, along comes a guy, "Oh hey space hulk?" "No, just 40k. Inside a ship." "...thats not tournament legal<rant for 5 minutes on how we're not playing the game right>"

Needless to say, I rarely play there. When I do, I try to do what-ever will cause the least amount of rubber-necking and neck beard rage. Making my own codex works for in-house, but I still can't walk into a gamesday and say "heres my project, but I made my own codex!"

I do appreciate your suggestion though, thank you.

JoeyFox wrote:

Sunoccard wrote:Ggenerally if you are going for a more fluffy build, I'd say take the vraks codex and add in what you want from the regular dex to top of it. For fluffy and non competitive games I don't think people will mind as much.

Very true. Problem is my store has a lot of morons who like to scream and whine when something isn't "codex" - I'll seriously have a hard time fielding anything that even looks non-tourny-legal even in friendly games.

I once had a 6x8 table comprised of paper taped down. On this paper was a complex map. Me and a friend wanted to play a "boarding action" 40k game. NOT space hulk, but literrally, boarding action, narrow combat. (Note, Flame Throwers are over-powered here, as we learned...) - Anyways, along comes a guy, "Oh hey space hulk?" "No, just 40k. Inside a ship." "...thats not tournament legal<rant for 5 minutes on how we're not playing the game right>"

Needless to say, I rarely play there. When I do, I try to do what-ever will cause the least amount of rubber-necking and neck beard rage. Making my own codex works for in-house, but I still can't walk into a gamesday and say "heres my project, but I made my own codex!"

I do appreciate your suggestion though, thank you.

This ties into another thread on this forum about jerks ruining other people's games. People who aren't playing the game have zero room to complain. ZERO. Your opponent has a right to pitch a fit, since he is your opponent and has an investment in the game. Bystanders have no business saying anything other than "that's cool" or "good luck" or"oh, that's different". Anything else is not worth troubling yourself over. If a neckbeard doesn't like your boarding action game (and I want to play one, now that you've brought it up!) he has every right to go feth himself, and none at all to bitch.

Oh, and I say go with Codex IG. It's not as flavorful as the Vrax codex, on the surface. But if you run the right kind of "counts-as" forces, you can do soooo much. I'm currently fielding Beastman/Catachan miniature hybrids as Chaos Beastmen counts-as Penal Squads.

There was a thread like this a while back where someone couldnt decide whether to use Vraks or IG. Its really much of a tossup on how you play. If you want more vehicles or more troops go with IG. If you want a slightly eliter army go with the Vraks, (Ogryns, CSM,). Me personally, i would go with Vraks just because its a different style of army you dont see everyday and it has brutally awesome Ogryns.

Thank you all for your reply to the thread and poll. I will stick with my IG, but use Vraks for a "elite" army as suggested perhaps...

My "veterans" though will be using Hades Drills across 3 of the 6 squads - and ironically, all my vets are FW Vrakian models... its just the main IG offers to many options from codex as well as "IG Codex only" options from FW books/pdfs...

I'll experiment either way, thanks all <3

And I can always ally a small CSM contingent in Apoc.