Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was thinking making all my scouts snipers and maybe getting more scouts to make them snipers. But im just not sure if they will be effective. Are the other load outs you can give scouts good like shot gunz, bolters, or make em a close combat squad.

A small scout squad with sniper rifles can make decent objective holders. They are also quite good vs high toughness targets. For CC scouts shotties/bp & cc weapon is best, just be sure to give the sarge meltabombs/pf. You may want to consider giving them a lss. Alpha strike what? My personal list actually builds a list around them. Is it competitive? Well it wins its share of games but it requires a little finesse to play. It loses its share to mind you. As for how effective they are in general it really depends on the rest of your list. I haven't used bolter equipped scouts so maybe others can chime in on their effectiveness and uses.

I run a fluffy Soul Drinkers army with several units of scouts with snipers, shotguns and CCWs. They're all decent at their job, it's their lack of things like meltas and plasmas that make them sub par in this meta. Snipers are ok, but pinning is generally useless and anyone who gets a little lucky on a deepstrike roll can ruin their day. The CCW scouts I usually use in a LSS to contest objectives. Shotgun scouts I just use for the fun factor, although one time they did defeat a 5 man Incubi squad in close combat.

Along the same lines, and im sorry for the mini thread jack, are the space wolves ok on the scout list? BAH just looked, ours aren't even troops choice.

Skal098 wrote:Along the same lines, and im sorry for the mini thread jack, are the space wolves ok on the scout list? BAH just looked, ours aren't even troops choice.

Well, they are pretty damn awesome compared to all other scouts, so them being troops too might have been slightly over the top


IMO, vanilla/BA scouts should always have ccw/bp, snipers are just so incredibad, they never do anything at all. With ccw/bp, your plucky little objective holders can suddenly punch above their weight.

Skal098 wrote:Along the same lines, and im sorry for the mini thread jack, are the space wolves ok on the scout list? BAH just looked, ours aren't even troops choice.

SW ones are also significantly better and thanks to not being troops do not have to contest the spot with Grey Hunters (One of the best troop choice in the game)
The ability to show up right behind your opponent with melta weaponry is nothing to scoff at.

I've had good luck with my scout snipers so far.

I run 4x snipers + HB, for 85 points. They sit in the back and hold an objective for cheaper than anything else in the marine codex, so thats pretty good.

a blast weapon that wounds on a 2+ is also not insignificant... against horde armies with lower armor saves its very good.

And you really do need SOMETHING to hold that back objective... the only other option with comparable damage output is a 5 man tac squad in razorback for 130 pts, but your paying 45 points more for arguably less survivability and arguably less firepower.

Horst wrote:I've had good luck with my scout snipers so far.

I run 4x snipers + HB, for 85 points. They sit in the back and hold an objective for cheaper than anything else in the marine codex, so thats pretty good.

a blast weapon that wounds on a 2+ is also not insignificant... against horde armies with lower armor saves its very good.

And you really do need SOMETHING to hold that back objective... the only other option with comparable damage output is a 5 man tac squad in razorback for 130 pts, but your paying 45 points more for arguably less survivability and arguably less firepower.

Or have 10 tacs with 1 special 1 heavy and a razor, combat squad into 2 and have the heavy weapon part sit back on a objective.
But you are right, that's no where as cheap.

5 scouts with camo-cloaks and combat blades hold that rear objective better than the 5 sniper scouts with heavy bolter. Can't be removed with ranged weapons, and you can't send just anything to take them out up close, as they have 16 S4 attacks on the charge

5 scouts ccw/bp in lss can do a lot of things. first turn assault, hold obj, contest obj, counter assault.
Scout bikers with 3 launchers and LB = awesome. you get to drop 2 DP dreadnoughts into the enemy without scatter (thanks to LB) or drop some terminators in to the battle too. Or outflank them and fire 6 s6 shots in to rear armor 10.

Trick with scouts is to use them with other units ex: DP dreads, terminators, DP sternguard, librarian with GOI...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only time I would take scouts with sniper rifles is when I take Talon, he is awesome.

I run almost only scouts. Snipers I do not like that much. Maybe I'm just unlucky with them. The cc scouts I've run with great success. The boltgun scouts are suprisingly fun. But the thing for me is that they all can infiltrate. Having pretty much all your infantry infiltrate... works wonders.

My brother loves scouts and made his own codex, with an HQ character that makes scouts troops. They have been used to good effect sometimes, but they do have weaknesses, so dont expect that if you use them, your going to auto win, itll take some good playing on your part

KingCracker wrote:My brother loves scouts and made his own codex, with an HQ character that makes scouts troops. They have been used to good effect sometimes, but they do have weaknesses, so dont expect that if you use them, your going to auto win, itll take some good playing on your part

I thought scouts were a troop choice?

To Offset the crap Ballistic Skill (Seriously BS 3 and they think they are snipers?) of Scout Snipers consider either buying Telion (expensive) or rounding out the Squad to 10 Snipers (sort of expensive but you get 5 more models). Rolling 6's helps on the Wound Rolls, and occassionally, very occasionally you can surprise the enemy killing a very tough unit (read Carnifex) by rolling 6's before it has chance to do anything.

My current setup is to run 3 Snipers + 1 ML (+Telion) and 5 CCW scouts in one squad. Combat Squad them, put Telion with the snipers & ML and use the Eye of Vengence and his higher BS to hit MC's or anything vulnerable (e.g Open Top vehicles etc). Then place the 5 Man Squad as a Cover unit, 12" Ahead of the Snipers to counter units coming for the objective (especially things like Scarabs, or Jump Infantry that can get at your snipers quickly). They act as a shield to the Snipers and Telion and allow some extra time to move them, or bring in another unit to assist, which means the snipers can keep fifing at the Enemy.

Expensive but quite effective as Objective campers, remember Telion can use his BS with a Krak Missile on the ML trooper, so i get a firesupport unit on the Backline, with some nice special rules (like picking wound allocation nice for taking out that FNP character or MC) and 5 man skirmish unit that can contribute to the wider battle.

I thought Snipers had BS 4. It says that in my mini rule book. Pg.98

KingCracker wrote:My brother loves scouts and made his own codex, with an HQ character that makes scouts troops. They have been used to good effect sometimes, but they do have weaknesses, so dont expect that if you use them, your going to auto win, itll take some good playing on your part

Yeah, they are already troops.

@Hazard908 good spot on page 98. It's a typo, as per SM Codex it is BS 3 WS 3 with only the Sergeant having BS 4 WS 4. I would be very happy if their BS was 4, 2/3 chance of a hit. With 50% chance to wound, not bad. Unfortunately not the case, bloody good spot though.

I have a five man sniper/heavy bolter/camo scout squad in my Imperial Fists list. I like the models and spent a long time painting them well, but they are not as good as I'd hoped they'd be. Their cover save usually keeps them fairly safe in a shootout, but their killing power is really underwhelming. Still, they are handy for holding down an objective in my deployment zone, especially against a list that doesn't have fast/deepstriking assault units. I've proxied a 5 man scout squad with a land speeder storm. They make a good late-game objective contester, but are very situational outside of that role.

Hazard908 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:My brother loves scouts and made his own codex, with an HQ character that makes scouts troops. They have been used to good effect sometimes, but they do have weaknesses, so dont expect that if you use them, your going to auto win, itll take some good playing on your part

I thought scouts were a troop choice?

forruner_mercy wrote:

KingCracker wrote:My brother loves scouts and made his own codex, with an HQ character that makes scouts troops. They have been used to good effect sometimes, but they do have weaknesses, so dont expect that if you use them, your going to auto win, itll take some good playing on your part

Yeah, they are already troops.

Yea I Goofed when I wrote that, I meant he could make an entire scouts army He had "speacial weapons teams" that were made up of scouts for heavies and so on

KingCracker wrote:

Hazard908 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:My brother loves scouts and made his own codex, with an HQ character that makes scouts troops. They have been used to good effect sometimes, but they do have weaknesses, so dont expect that if you use them, your going to auto win, itll take some good playing on your part

I thought scouts were a troop choice?

forruner_mercy wrote:

KingCracker wrote:My brother loves scouts and made his own codex, with an HQ character that makes scouts troops. They have been used to good effect sometimes, but they do have weaknesses, so dont expect that if you use them, your going to auto win, itll take some good playing on your part

Yeah, they are already troops.

Yea I Goofed when I wrote that, I meant he could make an entire scouts army He had "speacial weapons teams" that were made up of scouts for heavies and so on

Lol, yeah, changed the whole meaning doesn't it

Don't buy camo cloaks for your sniper scouts. Buy Telion--he grants the unit stealth (which is why you purchase camo cloaks in the first place), adds more killing power and chance to snipe targets, and makes that missile launcher much more deadly.

I thought tellion had stealth for himself so he doesn't need a Canon cloak, are you sure he confers it to his unit?

The Stealth rule says

Page 76 of the BGB wrote:The ability to make maximum use of available cover has saved many a warrior from discovery and death. All of the units cover saves are improved by +1

So he might.
If he does, then he is pure awesome sauce, since the Eye of Vengeance rule (which only affects him imo), the Voice of Experience rule, and the fact that he gives his unit Acute sense and stealth.

DukeBadham wrote:The Stealth rule says

Page 76 of the BGB wrote:The ability to make maximum use of available cover has saved many a warrior from discovery and death. All of the units cover saves are improved by +1

So he might.
If he does, then he is pure awesome sauce, since the Eye of Vengeance rule (which only affects him imo), the Voice of Experience rule, and the fact that he gives his unit Acute sense and stealth.

He's FAQed. He grants Stealth to the squad. So instead of buying camo cloaks, get Telion.



Q: If only some of the models in a unit have the Stealth
special rule, does the whole unit benefit from the +1
cover save? (p76)
A: Yes. In effect the ones with the Stealth special rule
ensure their colleagues also find good places to hide

starsdawn wrote:

DukeBadham wrote:The Stealth rule says

Page 76 of the BGB wrote:The ability to make maximum use of available cover has saved many a warrior from discovery and death. All of the units cover saves are improved by +1

So he might.
If he does, then he is pure awesome sauce, since the Eye of Vengeance rule (which only affects him imo), the Voice of Experience rule, and the fact that he gives his unit Acute sense and stealth.

He's FAQed. He grants Stealth to the squad. So instead of buying camo cloaks, get Telion.

Telion, being the most awesome scout around was not enough, he is so good, he makes calgar look like crap

I have been thinking of running Telion as a "count-as" Shadow Captain Korvydae for my Raven Guard Scout force.

Related question: If you take Telion as well as cloaks, do you get a +2 on your cover saves, or is it the same rule?

I've been using a Thunderfire Cannon, and 5 scouts in terrain with a 2+ cover save are very hard to get rid of.

d-usa wrote:I have been thinking of running Telion as a "count-as" Shadow Captain Korvydae for my Raven Guard Scout force.

Related question: If you take Telion as well as cloaks, do you get a +2 on your cover saves, or is it the same rule?

I've been using a Thunderfire Cannon, and 5 scouts in terrain with a 2+ cover save are very hard to get rid of.

No, you do not get +2 to cover from tellion + cloaks.

You just get stealth twice, which is the same as having nothing, because you cannot stack special rules like that unless it implicityly says in the ability that you can (like hammerhand from GK).

Well if you have an MotF, a Techmarine or TFC, or Lysander.... you can just reinforce a ruin. Place objectives there and make the scouts sit. 2+ cover saves baby.

Double stacking Stealth is a waste of points but it makes it so Talion can die and everyone in the Unit still get +1 to cover.

Talion does give his units +1 cover, as does a Techmarine's Fortify Defences. I have read many forums, Codex, and numbers. To some up Telion he is a 73pt model with one wound. Risky, yes, but in a 10 man unit with ML he is money. In a five man unit he is iffy. Consider him a standard barror, who can deside who he hits with two sniper shots.

Voice of Experience, you give up one BS 3 ML and two deligated B6 sniper shots for one B6 ML shot. It is a fair trade but should not be used every shot.

What? Telion almost always die last for me. I see him as an IC with 4 wounds (the other scouts). Usually the scouts don't attract that much fire since they're in the backfield and if they're in a bolstered ruin, they have 2+ cover save.