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I'm not sure if this topic has been covered before so apologies up front.

I'm noticing a trend in miniature production right now, where the levels of detail and sculpting quality is off th charts in its beauty and execution. While this would usually be something to celebrate, I've also noticed that the best companies out there are also tending towards producing these figures at true 28mm scale! 28mm from feet to eye line.

I recently bought a limited edition resin mini from Maow via Coolminiornot. The miniature as photographed looked amazing, a steam punk girl armed with two Uzi's.....now from the photo I would have sworn that the mini was about 30mm (at least!), however, when the mini arrived, it is true 28mm, and it is TINY!!!

My first question is, whats the point?!? So much detail on so small a figure, it's useless for display, unless you display it in a cabinet that has magnifying lens glass all round, and the detail level is equally useless for gaming! Anyone who has actually played table top wargames or skirmish games knows that you are at least 3 feet away from the table, and so.....

What do other gamers think of this? Are you simply wowed by the detail that the practicalities don't really matter? or are you as confused as I am?

I know the arguments these companies put forward to explain why they opt for these small scales for their premium display grade miniatures, but to be honest, I can't bring myself to agree with them. A display miniature is exactly that, and a gaming miniature (IMHO) is a different beast altogther....what these things represent to me are no more than novelties!

Your thoughts

The fact that some companies choose to actually make miniatures in the scale they claim their miniatures are in is a good thing. The reason why the figures seem small is because 28mm has been subject to horrendous scale creep in the past decade, even more so if you consider that most 28s started out as 25s. Add to that there has always been disagreement as to what xxmm actually represents in height, and you get "small" and "large" people.

(Also, I haven't seen the mini you describe, but it sounds like the sort of figure that should be small and delicate. Pics would be nice?)

If you can have the best of both worlds packed inside 1 mini why not take the chance to appeal to both painters and gamers?

Here is a link to the miniature I bought:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/maow-miniatures/sophie-bigoud-1.html

The point is, I'm gonna have to bust a nut to paint this miniature, the detail is SO fine, you seriously need a lens to see what's actually going on.

Now whether I paint this miniature for display or for gaming, the end effect is, after all that effort, are people (including me) going to really see it?

I have a relatively "ok" painted IG army....on the table, all painted to a uniform standard, they look great. However, they look great as a "mass" of miniatures, individually you don't really see any of the effort that goes into them.

When people stop by the cabinet, they actually don't see the pro painted minis I have, or at best, don't recognise them as pro painted until I lift them out of the cabinet and they hold the miniature about 1 foot from their nose.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 28mm gaming miniatures should be devoid of all detail (like 6mm stuff), but I question whether or not the various companies are taking this quest for detail too far at this scale.

Is the whole 28mm detailed miniatures becoming more a gimmick than a positive development for the industry. Of course, the more detailed and fine the miniature, the more they can expect you to pay.....but are you actually paying for redundant features?

Delephont wrote: Of course, the more detailed and fine the miniature, the more they can expect you to pay.....but are you actually paying for redundant features?

As I said its all about optimizing the sales to the maximum and in such competitive market the most well sculpted minis have a bigger chance to catch both players and painters money.

Makes no sense to make less well sculpted minis for the sake of making them just appealing to one side of the market if you have the chance to appeal to all.

For some reason the quality today is growing, thats because thats what people are looking for.

Don't you know you've painted that little rune?

Who the hell paints for other people? Who are they?

When a model only has production run of 400 it's fair that it will be more of a display piece than a gaming figure. I don't think it matters that the detail is cast on the figure, you don't have to paint it. Really detailed paint jobs seem better suited to colourful fantasy figures than realistic military ones.

Some models, even at 54mm, are intricately painted to the degree which those with poorer eyesight won't be able to see it all which is a shame. Personally I find that there is a point where painting detail becomes more of an exercise in technique for winning competitions. In reality you can't see a lot of this detail on the real thing which is my criticism of some military modellers who paint every rivet and panel line.

Delephont wrote:Here is a link to the miniature I bought:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/maow-miniatures/sophie-bigoud-1.html

The point is, I'm gonna have to bust a nut to paint this miniature, the detail is SO fine, you seriously need a lens to see what's actually going on.

Think of where you bought the figure from. CMON caters to the single figure painting market. Their buyers are generally looking for figures that require 20-100 hours of work and look best when viewed in the hand. There is nothing wrong - its just different.

Scipio Africanus wrote:Don't you know you've painted that little rune?

Who the hell paints for other people? Who are they?

Well, that's a seperate debate in itself. Try the above to those people who refuse to play against unpainted / basecoated armies! I know it's the inverse of the "argument" but it goes to show we don't live in a vacuum and do things merely to please ourselves, as humans we actively seek approval and praise, and this is no different when applied to our artistic endeavours.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Some models, even at 54mm, are intricately painted to the degree which those with poorer eyesight won't be able to see it all which is a shame. Personally I find that there is a point where painting detail becomes more of an exercise in technique for winning competitions. In reality you can't see a lot of this detail on the real thing which is my criticism of some military modellers who paint every rivet and panel line.

This is kind of my point.

NAVARRO wrote:As I said its all about optimizing the sales to the maximum and in such competitive market the most well sculpted minis have a bigger chance to catch both players and painters money.

Makes no sense to make less well sculpted minis for the sake of making them just appealing to one side of the market if you have the chance to appeal to all.

For some reason the quality today is growing, thats because thats what people are looking for.

As I said peviously, I understand the economic motivations of the various companies, however, I question if those motivations are ultimately redundant for the avergae gamer / painter. To me, right now, this all seems like glitz and glamour with very little practical usage for either aspect of the market.

Ok, if Maow et al were selling these minis for the same price as a "standard" gaming piece, then I would say fair enough, maybe these guys think they are evolving the industry standards....from a pricing perspective, this is clearly not the case.

Another interesting thing I've found while "surfing" the web. Very few of these companies actually give you a clear indication of size! In the Garage Kit industry, a lot of companies selling those resin pieces have pictures of the kits against a ruler...in this way you know what you're letting yourself in for, and can make an informed judgement about whether this model is really what you think it is. Refering to the miniature I linked to in a previous post, there's absolutely no indication of its real size.

Traditional wargame figures are much less detailed, recognising the redundancy of painting the garter belts on all 250 of the Royal Garde Musketeers, etc.

I would also agree that the level of detail painting in Golden Demon and other such competitions is irrelevant to everyday gaming.

IMO it actually discourages people from painting to a decent tabletop standard.

If detail is a problem then have you tried thicker paint; straight from the pot work best I find.

If the mini is sold at 28mm then I don't think that there is any issue if it turns out to be 28mm.

If anything she is probably a bit tall for a female since the standard 28mm would probably represent an average 6' male (I assume)?

I would suggest the problem (if there is one) is that we may have gotten too use to the caricatured...er I mean heroic proportions used by PP/GW/their contemporaries.

I also agree that the rule of 3' is very important and should be pointed out to everyone joining the hobby. Allot don't really get this concept until you have finished at least a regiment or more like a small army and can literally sit back and take it all in at once. Anyone trying to paint a Heavy Metal standard squad stright off the bat will (as KK suggests) be discouraged.

Howard A Treesong wrote:When a model only has production run of 400 it's fair that it will be more of a display piece than a gaming figure. I don't think it matters that the detail is cast on the figure, you don't have to paint it. Really detailed paint jobs seem better suited to colourful fantasy figures than realistic military ones.

Some models, even at 54mm, are intricately painted to the degree which those with poorer eyesight won't be able to see it all which is a shame. Personally I find that there is a point where painting detail becomes more of an exercise in technique for winning competitions. In reality you can't see a lot of this detail on the real thing which is my criticism of some military modellers who paint every rivet and panel line.

I agree for me it's an issue of sense and effort vs time and effort!