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So I ran into an interesting scenario the other day playing against some tyranids. My opponent ran Hive Tyrant with 2 Tyrant Guard and an attached Tyranid Prime. The way the unit was set up, it was impossible for me to pick out the tyrant or prime with shooting. My opponent took a his idea a step further, always making sure there were other intervening infantry models between me and the unit. His reasoning was his whole unit including the tyrant gets cover from the intervening models.

I know monstrous creature and vehicle cover rules work differently, where more than 50% of the model most be obscured from view to claim cover. But with that unit set up as it is, does that whole unit get cover because 50% of the models in the unit get cover, or are any wounds allocated to the tyrant taken without cover unless that model is obscured? We ended up playing it as the later, because it is what made sense to up and we wanted to keep the game going.

darkdm wrote:But with that unit set up as it is, does that whole unit get cover because 50% of the models in the unit get cover

Yes.
This is true even with vehicles and MCs.

The rules for CLAIMING cover change, but if (at least) 50% of a unit can claim cover saves, the unit can claim cover saves.

Yep, you can claim cover saves for the unit if 50% or more of the unit are in cover. So if 2 of 3 infantry models are in cover then the whole unit gains a cover save even if the 3rd model is not in cover - because theyre an MC, for example

Can't you do the smae thing with Thunderfire cannons? Hide the techmarine and show the cannon?

liam0404 wrote:Can't you do the smae thing with Thunderfire cannons? Hide the techmarine and show the cannon?

No but you can put the techmarine in front of the cannon and then put the tech marine in cover.

Yes, indeed you can. Just have the techmarine stand in terrain, and 1 of 2 models will be in cover == 50% or more == whole unit has cover.

cgage00 wrote:

liam0404 wrote:Can't you do the smae thing with Thunderfire cannons? Hide the techmarine and show the cannon?

No but you can put the techmarine in front of the cannon and then put the tech marine in cover.

The tech marine being in front of the cannon has nothing to do with it as he and the cannon are a unit and therefore do not block line of sight to each other. If he's standing in area terrain though then it's fair game (even better, if the terrain is a fortified ruin it's a 3+ cover).

So to get this correctly, if I put a Tyranid Prime (independent character) with a Trygon as a unit, and then bubble wrap with termagants then the Trygon would have cover?

The Prime would get cover from the gants, and because there are only 2 models in the unit this equals 50%, conferring the whole unit cover if what you are saying is true.

L'Etat C'Est Moi wrote:So to get this correctly, if I put a Tyranid Prime (independent character) with a Trygon as a unit, and then bubble wrap with termagants then the Trygon would have cover?

The Prime would get cover from the gants, and because there are only 2 models in the unit this equals 50%, conferring the whole unit cover if what you are saying is true.

Can't put it with a Trygon as its a model which is always one model. You could put him with a carnifex to give the fex a save.

The Prime can't join the Trygon (since the Trygon only ever consists of one model). But if you use Carnifexen instead of the Trygon, the answer is yes.

If the Prime could be joined to the Trygon then this would be a viable tactic.

However the Prime can not join the Trygon's unit, since the trygon is a unit that only ever consists of one model.

Better scenario, Hive Tyrant and a Tyrant Guard. HT can join TG (as an IC) if TG has cover then 50% has cover...

Happyjew wrote:Better scenario, Hive Tyrant and a Tyrant Guard. HT can join TG (as an IC) if TG has cover then 50% has cover...

Close - it's not "as an IC". It's similar, but you cannot pick out a HT in CC (for example).

I'm not sure how that's "better" than the Prime and a Fex.

Actually I was referring to Prime and Trygon. I must've missed Prime and Carny (still getting used to having 3 Carny's in a group instead of 1....)


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Also, check out pg 35 of the codex, under Shield Wall