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I've played a couple of games with this at 1500 points, with good success. Am now taking the step up to 1750, and basically just taking upgrades here and there, and Straken.

The plan would be to have the HWSs and Creed/Kell towards the back, issuing orders. Straken and Al-Rahem's platoon outflank.

Thoughts welcome! Thanks


Company Command Squad 1
Castellan Creed
Sergeant Kell
Lascannon
Astropath
Master of the Fleet

Company Command Squad 2
Straken
3 Melta Guns
Heavy Flamer
Krak Grenades

Ministorum Priest

Infantry Platoon 1

Platoon Command Squad
Al'Rahim
Krak Grenades
Heavy Flamer
2 Flamers
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Commissar
Power Sword
Krak Grenades
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun
Krak Grenades

Infantry Squad
Krak Grenades
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun
Krak Grenades

Infantry Platoon 2

Platoon Command
Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon

Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Veteran Squad
Harker
3 Plasma Guns
Lascannon

Drop the krak grenades... at Str 6 your better off sucking it up with melta bombs on your Sargeants. Drop the heavy flamers as they are to expensive for what they do. I am also against mixing special weapons, specially on the BS 3 PCS squads.

Where are your power weapons? You have a 40 man blob with 1 power weapon... not enough.

I am not sold on the Priest as he is a IC and gets singled out in CC. He also has to follow the IC assault rules where he has to move first to get in.

For Harker, I feel that since he has a HB, you might as well accept that you do not want to fire on vehicles. Just get a second HB and look at Demolitions Doc. Totally keep the plasma though. Just accept your AT is your plasma and melta bombs, but your main target is things like Devistator squads. I feel Harker is best used as a infiltrator and set up in cover 18" away from troops, not outflanking.

Since you only have 2 outflanking units (Platoon counts as a single roll and have to come in together), I am not sold on the Astropath. I feel you need 3+ units from reserves to really justify the points.

Your plan to 'bring Straken with Al'Rahim' is a poor plan. They are seperate units and thus have seperate rolls for reserves. The chances of both units rolling 3+ turn 2 and getting same table side are not great.

OK, I'll go with the krak grenades, and use that to get some more power weapons.

I think the Priest will work by keeping him at the back of the blob, so he can't actually get in to combat. He just keeps everyone angry...!

Good shout on the Veteran squad - heavy bolter it is!

I've seen heavy flamers ruin people's days in the hands of Stern Guard - why wouldn't a guardsman by as effective (other than only getting one, and not having power armour)?

In a Guard list, one heavy flamer is two melta guns or four flamers. When you think of it like that, it makes you focus on if you have the points for it or not. Also, power armor still get's it save. Now all your doing is paying 15pts for Str 5.

I said drop the Krak grenades. A Dread hits you in CC, a Str 6 Grenade needs two 6s in a row to hit and glance. If it is AV 13, your Krak is wasted points. This is why you just stick with melta bombs on the Sergeants. Yeah, you still have to roll a 6 to hit, but when you do you have to totally fail to not penatrate. The goal is to not get in CC with walkers or MCs anyway, but sometimes they do not give you a choice. MC, well, your just screwed if it is T 7 or higher because you can't use nades against them anyways. Melta bombs give you a chance against a walker you wouldn't have otherwise.

Sorry - I meant I'll go with dropping the krak grenades...!

Heh... well it was alittle confusing there.

I played about with it a bit last night and came up with the following, and have 5 points spare.

One concern I do have is that I have exactly the same amount of men as in 1500 points, some of them are better, some of them have better guns. Is 110 men going to be enough to intimidate people at 1750 points?

I've kept the Astropath for now, but could potentially lose him and the Master of the Fleet to get a SWS with meltas (spending that 5 points). In the games I played the re-rolling table edge was really handy, and I could get hurt by outflankers myself as the "anvil" part of my army doesn't do too well at being assaulted...


Company Command Squad 1
Castellan Creed
Sergeant Kell
Lascannon
Astropath
Master of the Fleet

Company Command Squad 2
Straken
4 Plasma Guns

Ministorum Priest

Infantry Platoon 1

Platoon Command Squad
Al'Rahim
4 Flamers

Infantry Squad
Commissar
Power Sword
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Commissar
Power Weapon
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Power Sword
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Power Sword
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Platoon 2

Platoon Command
Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon

Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Veteran Squad
Harker
3 Plasma Guns
Heavy Bolter

What I would recommend then is to blob up your 'anvil' part of your list (your 2nd platoon). One advisor and that 5pts could be the commissar the unit needs to give it alittle backbone to stand up to being the only unit on the board Turn 1. The second Advisor could give them 3x PWs or 2x Melta guns and a PW (or two Melta bombs instead of the PW).

How sold are you on Straken? I say this because you /really/ could use a Lord Commissar for all of those HWSs (or 2-3 of them) for giving them Ld 10 for morale and pinning checks. You give him a Camo Cloak and you can even attach him to a HWS, thus giving it Stubborn and 3+ cover saves. Kell covers their LD for Orders using Creed's Ld, but the Lord does help keep them on the board. Just give him a bolter for his weapon for free and he is set.

You can use the rest of the points (if you drop Straken) to fill out special weapon slots and you can even look at Marbro and maybe even a Melta Vet squad you can use 'Tactical Genius' on if you want to Outflank them. You can even use it on platoon 2 to give them all Scout for a +3 Cover save and not have to Outflank them or anything. This also means you can keep your Advisors.

To much of a radical shift from your list?

Well, Kell does give them a re-roll on failed morale and pinning checks, albeit at LD7 still, and Creed can obviously issue "Get back in the fight!".

And I'm quite sold on Straken, without having used him. He does look nails! I will probably try him for a few games and see how he gets on.

I have been blobbing up the second platoon, originally with a Commissar, but they haven't upset anyone enough to be shot at...! They almost want a third squad, but then I wouldn't have enough for the Commissar...! Hmm, decisions...

Well, they really are not re-rolling at Ld7... you have to figure that it will be at -3 or more due to deaths to get that 25% killed to make a morale check.

Straken is good, don't get me wrong. But I am not sure you have the points for him at 1750pts.

Let's see....

If you blob up your 'anvil' platoon and drop the ACs and kit them up to a proper blob. You need 195pts to kit out both PIS (Commissar, 3x PW, 2x Melta guns, 2x Melta bombs). To do this, you need another 75pts, so drop a AC HWS. Then run them up the middle with Straken behind them (and within 12"). Give Straken a Standard and keep 'Move!x3' on the blob and Straken's CCS to get into CC ASAP.

Your gonna end up losing 5 ACs, but I bet your 'anvil' blob will draw a heck of alot more aggro.

Use Tactical Genius on the 'Anvil' blob to give them Scout. Don't outflank them or anything... just use it to give them the extra 6" move to get that much closer.

How does that grab ya?

If you blob up your units do you really need all the meltabombs?

Really if your runing combined 2/3 should have a meltabomb, it'll save you 5 points

Gls put into you Autocannon squads support them well at only 5 points, they can offer up some S6 shots for light AV which is what auto cannons should be firing, and if need be, some light infantry work with its frag round helps out to.


Lets see. I would actually suggest not blobbing the second platoon, personal prefrence but I like to spread my fire around.

having 2 S7 and a S6 shot can usually do something to most light vehicles, or you can fire a second squads in support

You don't have to destroy the vehicles each turn.

All you have to do really is stun it, and then move on to your next target.

I would also personally drop the priest, but if thats your style roll with it.


you could also probably drop the Vet squad, drop a Lascannon squad and probably put 3x new squads in platoon 2 w/ a commissar w/ a power weaon if you need more bodies

BlkTom wrote:Well, they really are not re-rolling at Ld7... you have to figure that it will be at -3 or more due to deaths to get that 25% killed to make a morale check.

Straken is good, don't get me wrong. But I am not sure you have the points for him at 1750pts.

Let's see....

If you blob up your 'anvil' platoon and drop the ACs and kit them up to a proper blob. You need 195pts to kit out both PIS (Commissar, 3x PW, 2x Melta guns, 2x Melta bombs). To do this, you need another 75pts, so drop a AC HWS. Then run them up the middle with Straken behind them (and within 12"). Give Straken a Standard and keep 'Move!x3' on the blob and Straken's CCS to get into CC ASAP.

Your gonna end up losing 5 ACs, but I bet your 'anvil' blob will draw a heck of alot more aggro.

Use Tactical Genius on the 'Anvil' blob to give them Scout. Don't outflank them or anything... just use it to give them the extra 6" move to get that much closer.

How does that grab ya?

That grabs me good...!

I think your first point is wrong though - you don't lose leadership from shooting, as far as I'm aware...

Gonna have another play with the numbers and report back!

Thanks for the help - really appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, I think I'm getting closer. Dropped the advisors rather than the Autocannon HWS, and swapped the second pcs autocannon for 4 flamers. Can't get in melta guns on the 2 squad blob but have managed the bombs/power weapons. I think there is sufficient anti-tank anyway.


Company Command Squad 1
Castellan Creed
Sergeant Kell
Lascannon

Company Command Squad 2
Straken
4 Plasma Guns

Ministorum Priest

Infantry Platoon 1

Platoon Command Squad
Al'Rahim
4 Flamers

Infantry Squad
Commissar
Power Sword
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Commissar
Power Weapon
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Power Sword
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Squad
Power Sword
Melta Bombs
Melta Gun

Infantry Platoon 2

Platoon Command
4 Flamers

Infantry Squad
Commissar
2 Power Weapons
Melta Bombs

Infantry Squad
Power Weapon
Melta Bombs

Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Veteran Squad
Harker
3 Plasma Guns
Heavy Bolter

I stand corrected. I have been looking though the book and I did not find anywhere where it says you have a negitive to your morale check from deaths caused by shooting.