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HQ
- Company Command Squad with carapace armor, 4 meltaguns, Commander with bolt pistol power weapon; mounted in a Vendetta
122 points



ELITES
2x Storm Trooper Squads with 2 meltaguns, sarge with BP and PW, each in a Vendetta
230 points


FAST ATTACK
3-strong Valkyrie Squadron with heavy bolters
330 points

- 2-strong Vendetta Squadron
230 points

- 2-strong Vendetta Squadron
230 points



TROOPS
- Platoon Command Squad, Commander with bolt pistol and power weapon; mounted in a Vendetta
42 points

3x Veteran Squads with 7 shotguns and 3 flamers, all using the "Grenadier" doctrine, and mounted in Valkyries
315


Total: 1499 points


As you can see, this list revolves around drop troops, as I like that style a lot. I would like you guys to confirm my point costs and any suggestions, as long as they keep with the "everyone in a Valkyrie or Vendetta" vibe.

Just gonna point this out, a PCS cant be taken by itself. You need to take at least two more Infantry squads to make that choice legal

SilentApocalypse wrote:Just gonna point this out, a PCS cant be taken by itself. You need to take at least two more Infantry squads to make that choice legal

Oh yes! It wasn't until after this that I actually saw small the small note at the bottom of the page
What should I take instead of that PCS?

I believe if you get rid of the heavy bolters on the valkyries you can have enough to kit out another vet squad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To clarify, the valkyies will more often then not be unable to fire their heavy bolters, presuming that their moving around dispatching troops

SilentApocalypse wrote:I believe if you get rid of the heavy bolters on the valkyries you can have enough to kit out another vet squad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To clarify, the valkyies will more often then not be unable to fire their heavy bolters, presuming that their moving around dispatching troops

True, but what would I put the Vet squad in? And removing the HB will only give me another 30 points.

However, I do believe that I could then put Sly Marbo in.

I meant the HB and command squad, but Sly Marbo could be really cool for an aerial assault army. And while most would say that carapace and flamers arent very good on veterans (You could have another vendetta, or vet squad, etc. without grenadiers and command squad.) But I love vets with grenadiers and flamers jumping out of valkyries screaming for the emperah!!!! So whatever

Vendettas are 130 a pop. and how about a list like this? i dont know how much the bolt pistol costs or id drop it too

HQ
- Company Command Squad 4 plasma mounted in a Vendetta
90

ELITES
2x Storm Trooper Squads with 2 meltaguns, sarge with BP each in a Vendetta
200 points


FAST ATTACK
3-strong Valkyrie Squadron
300 points

- 2-strong Vendetta Squadron
260 points

- 2-strong Vendetta Squadron
260 points



TROOPS
2 vets with 2 flamers and a heavy flamer (yeah extra twenty points, why not) one in vendetta one in valk
190

2 vet squads with three meltas in valks
200

SilentApocalypse wrote:I meant the HB and command squad, but Sly Marbo could be really cool for an aerial assault army. And while most would say that carapace and flamers arent very good on veterans (You could have another vendetta, or vet squad, etc. without grenadiers and command squad.) But I love vets with grenadiers and flamers jumping out of valkyries screaming for the emperah!!!! So whatever

Kinda what I was going for
When I do this, I will be using Catachan. Don't see to many of those guys.

Also, the Storm Trooper sarge's BP costs no points, it is a free upgrade, while for the command squads it is 2 points.

To bad Steve's points are wrong... and not the good way. CCS, STs, and Flamer vets are short points.

Drop the PWs and don't waste BS 4 with flamers.

Quick question... are you going to drop your troops out of your Valks or are they in there just to make them scoring?

If you just want cheap troops to make them scoring, a platoon can actually do this for you. If you want to zoom in and drop out your troops, then Vets are the way to go.

Read up on the squadron rules and understand what your getting into.

The troops will drop out.

Instead of flamers, what should I take?

On Vets, it should be 3 Melta guns or 3 Plasma guns to make best use of the BS 4. Flamers are good, but really should be used on BS 3 troops where you don't have to roll to hit.

CCS also should use melta or plasma as they are also BS 4. They are also cheaper then vets and pack an extra weapon, so if you really want a suicide squad, I will suggest buy two CCSs with 4x Meltas and throw them in a Valk. If you want advisors because you want to Outflank (astropath), you probably do not want to suicide them in then.

STs are kinda wasted in Vendettas/Valks because they are not dedicated transports. All you can do with them is what the vehicle does anyway (scout). I will honestly suggest just use Vets in this situation.

On Valks, I suggest the Pods. Just understand they are only effective against troops. Throwing melta vets in them can give them some AT capability.

You do understand that each squadron can only fire on one target, correct?

The problem you've got with the CCS is they have to bail out to use those plasma guns, it also means the Vendetta must get close to a target to drop the CCS off into rapid fire range. The carapace armour isn't worth it because the CCS is getting one shot and you will probably lose the Vendetta also thanks to melta. CCS should be in a Chimera. I know that aircav is your theme but I think you're going to have problems because of the small units coming out who aren't exactly hard to kill.

Besides what the other have said, I think one of the biggest problems is the squadron rules which will cripple you. You're not only forced to shoot the squadron at one unit, but you're destroyed on an immobilized result too. With only seven AV12 vehicles the size of a small moon, cover won't be easy to find.

It is commendable that you want to be as fluffy as possible. Get a hold of IA:8 and check out the drop troop army list there. Its pretty fantastic.

Blacksails wrote:Besides what the other have said, I think one of the biggest problems is the squadron rules which will cripple you. You're not only forced to shoot the squadron at one unit, but you're destroyed on an immobilized result too. With only seven AV12 vehicles the size of a small moon, cover won't be easy to find.

It is commendable that you want to be as fluffy as possible. Get a hold of IA:8 and check out the drop troop army list there. Its pretty fantastic.

Ok, will try to see the IA:8 list then.

I will take all of your suggestions into consideration. Does not mean I will actually do it, but I will respect them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlkTom wrote:On Vets, it should be 3 Melta guns or 3 Plasma guns to make best use of the BS 4. Flamers are good, but really should be used on BS 3 troops where you don't have to roll to hit.

CCS also should use melta or plasma as they are also BS 4. They are also cheaper then vets and pack an extra weapon, so if you really want a suicide squad, I will suggest buy two CCSs with 4x Meltas and throw them in a Valk. If you want advisors because you want to Outflank (astropath), you probably do not want to suicide them in then.

STs are kinda wasted in Vendettas/Valks because they are not dedicated transports. All you can do with them is what the vehicle does anyway (scout). I will honestly suggest just use Vets in this situation.

On Valks, I suggest the Pods. Just understand they are only effective against troops. Throwing melta vets in them can give them some AT capability.

You do understand that each squadron can only fire on one target, correct?

I understand 1 squadron = 1 target. I just wanted to make a AirCav list, and that is really the only way to do it with only 3 slots for FA.

Also, how useful are bodyguards?
And for that matter, how useful are any of the Catachan IC, such as Harker? Obviously I am going to include Marbo.

Yeah, don't sweat it. There were a few other lists posted recently that where the same theme using nothing but Vendettas/Valks. You might want to look at the last few pages to see if they inspire you or give you some ideas. I am pretty sure they are at different point costs though.

I think the main thing here are people (like myself) are concerned on how new you are to Guard when you make a rookie mistake like not understanding the platoon rules with the PCS added to the Vets. Buying a /ton/ of Valks is pretty damn expensive, much less converting some to Vendettas. But if you already have them...yeah, I guess I would want to use them too.

If you want to do air cav, you can do it. You just need to understand the limitations your facing. But there is a reason why alot of tourney people do not consider it a tourney level list. If your just playing friends or just want to do it because you have a ton of the things, go for it. Will you win all of your games? Probably not, but you will win some and as long as your enjoying yourself, that is all that really matters.

BlkTom wrote:Yeah, don't sweat it. There were a few other lists posted recently that where the same theme using nothing but Vendettas/Valks. You might want to look at the last few pages to see if they inspire you or give you some ideas. I am pretty sure they are at different point costs though.

I think the main thing here are people (like myself) are concerned on how new you are to Guard when you make a rookie mistake like not understanding the platoon rules with the PCS added to the Vets. Buying a /ton/ of Valks is pretty damn expensive, much less converting some to Vendettas. But if you already have them...yeah, I guess I would want to use them too.

If you want to do air cav, you can do it. You just need to understand the limitations your facing. But there is a reason why alot of tourney people do not consider it a tourney level list. If your just playing friends or just want to do it because you have a ton of the things, go for it. Will you win all of your games? Probably not, but you will win some and as long as your enjoying yourself, that is all that really matters.

That is really why I am playing 40K. It is fairly interesting universe, plus any lists that I do I want to have fun with. If I had a list that I always won with, I would not have much fun. But if whatever list I will use beats a superior list? That makes it all worth it, IMO.

I think I might put Harker in a squad. Can take a way 1 Valk or Vendetta to help with the Squadron stuff, plus some good Vet buffs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


I came up with a new list. Still have 40 points to spend on something. Also, please check my points.

HQ
- CCS with 4 meltas, carapace armor, PW, Astropath; mounted in a Valkyrie
150 points



ELITES
- Guardsmen Marbo
65 points



FAST ATTACK
4x Valkyries with rocket pods, 2 squadrons of 2
520 points

2x Vendettas
260 points



TROOPS
4x Vet squads
- x1 with shotguns, 3 meltas, Harker
145 points
- x1 with shotguns, 3 meltas; mounted in a Valkyrie
90 points
- x2 with shotguns, flamers, "demolitions" doctrine
230 points


TOTAL: 1460 points

Ok, I think what I will do is instead of making a Air-Cav themed list, I will make a scouting force-temed list. So some Vendettas, and everyone else in Chimeras, and maybe some scout sentinels.

If you are going to go scout themed, then take Harker...just for his badassery and awesomeness (oh, and he does some nifty stealth/scout/infiltrate/move through cover stuff too i guess)

Still some wrong wargear on this list. You need to understand that anything which jumps out that Vendettas are dead meat next turn. You don't want to invest points into dead units, so drop the carapace armour and power weapon from the CCS for example.

Because I am going for a scout themed list, I would like to know what units in the FA slot I could use instead of Valks/Vendettas.

Hey there,
I'm also working on a pure Air Cav list a few posts down.

Because I am going for a scout themed list, I would like to know what units in the FA slot I could use instead of Valks/Vendettas.

No shortage of options here. Scout sentinels are the obvious choice, but any of the Hellhound variants would fit the theme as well, being fast and plausibly airmobile.

Will be watching this thread with interest!

Mediocrates wrote:Hey there,
I'm also working on a pure Air Cav list a few posts down.

Because I am going for a scout themed list, I would like to know what units in the FA slot I could use instead of Valks/Vendettas.

No shortage of options here. Scout sentinels are the obvious choice, but any of the Hellhound variants would fit the theme as well, being fast and plausibly airmobile.

Will be watching this thread with interest!

Yeah, I saw it
Trying to come up with a scouting list right now.

Some more input please? For a Air Cav list?

Are you going for a 'scouting' force or an air cav force, cause you're asking for both now.

Well, scouting was the original term I used, before I realized that "air cav" was a better term. In truth I am asking the same thing, just changed the terms I was using as one is...misleading.

One of the pitfalls of running an all valk/vendetta force is that your troops lack staying power. If you are using the guard codex, I'd strongly recommend you exploit the fact you can take Chimeras to act as bunkers for your more shooty squads while the troops inside your valkyries should be one shot wonders (i.e. when they drop out they should absolutely destroy their target as they will likely be wiped out the following turn!)

What I recommend you take in Valkyries is this.
Veterans: 3xMeltagun + Demolitions 130pts.
OR
Veterans: 3xPlasmagun + Demolitions 145pts.

You have to remember, that the guys jumping out of the Valkyries are only t3 and ld8 who will try to run when the first 3 guys die. And dropping in means you'll be close to rapid fire range for a lot of nasty guns like bolters that munch guard squads for breakfast. Having a democharge and 3x powerful special weapons lets you cripple or utterly destroy a squad usually, so if you see something like a broadside squad or terminators, you can fly right up to them and perform a "grav chute insertion" (risky) and then plop down a S8 AP2 template and some other nasty high strength low AP fire on your target.

I'd recommend Meltas usually because they have the versatility of being able to hurt tanks and elite infantry. When fighting against hordes, you also want to buy multiple rocket pods, and perform a few strafing runs on the enemy (i.e. vs green tide where the enemy is tough in close combat, but has little shooting power). You can really whittle away the Ork squad before finally dropping in and mopping up with your veterans.

I use both the IA8 list and the guard codex for my Elysians, but I definitly prefer the guard codex as the extra support you get is worth sacrificing the number of Valkyries you can take (seriously, if you haven't bought the Valkyries yet, you don't know the hassle it is transporting the buggers around).

Here's a link to a tournament I played using an all air army.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/367601.page

One thing that I often find is the biggest weakness to aerial lists is enemies with powerful shooting. Tau and other guard will be your biggest enemies as lascannons and railguns shred through your fliers, leaving your fragile veteran squads to slowly march up.

One solution I've found to counter this is if you get first turn, is to scout up as close as you can to the most threatening targets and just drop your veterans for an alpha strike in a bid to take out the most dangerous targets (like broadsides, Hydras, Lascannon HWT etc.) and just try to cripple your enemies firepower before they can shoot. If you get second turn you can try this with deepstrike and reserves, but this is far more of a gamble.

One more thing to watch out for is assault, it's surpisingly easy to get caught up in assault, especially against Orks.

I have thought about Air Cav/Mech because while it is not exactly what I want, it is more survivable and, from a modeling and painting perspective, I can make the Chimeras more interesting. For instance, I can cut open the Chimera with the CSS in it, and make it look like a mobile command post.

I have also thought about doing Armored Fist list, where it is completely mech.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, what I am going to do, is I am going to make a new thread, come up with some new lists for different styles, and see which ones you guys like best.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the link to the new thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/406734.page