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So ok here's what I thought :

Belial : Twin lightning Claws

Dreadnought : Venerable + multi-melta

Dreadnought : Venerable + multi-melta

Ravenwing Attack Squadron : Sergeant with melta-bombs and power weapons, 2 bikers with meltaguns

Ravenwing Attack Squadron : Sergeant with melta-bombs and power weapons, 2 bikers with meltaguns

Deathwing Terminator Squad : Standard (DW Banner), Apothecary, 2x Twin Lightning claws, 2x TH/SS, Cyclone Missile Launcher

Deathwing Terminator Squad : 2x TH/SS, 3x Twin Lightning Claws, Cyclone

Deathwing Terminator Squad : 2x TH/SS, 3x Twin Lightning Claws, Cyclone

So is there any flaw you see in it? I know many of you told me that dreadnoughts are not so good, but I kinda like the feel they give to my list. And to be honest, I kinda hate vehicules that aren't walkers. But if you say they must abolutely go out to replce them for landspeeder, I might consider it if you give me good reasons.

I can see the reason why you may want one bike squad but too is just too many points. Maybe go for 3 bikes and attack bike to give two targets with homers.

Dreads I would a long range weapon to you get to use it. Also venerable is really expensive.

Get the master of the ravenwing so those bikes are scoring.

Doublewing works when all units can take objectives.

Eyclonus wrote:Get the master of the ravenwing so those bikes are scoring.

Doublewing works when all units can take objectives.

This right here. Not only that but an armor 14 land speeder with bs5 is hilarious against opponents who have never had to deal with it. Scout them bikes up 24 onto an objective, drop them termies in, and rape face.

Doublewing can be really great, and is fun to play

MFletch wrote:I can see the reason why you may want one bike squad but too is just too many points. Maybe go for 3 bikes and attack bike to give two targets with homers.

Dreads I would a long range weapon to you get to use it. Also venerable is really expensive.

20pts for Venerable is not expensive but it can sometimes be worth dropping. Just keep in mind that 3 Dakka Preds costs as much as two Ven.Dreads

The other parts I agree with tho. Give your dreads a HF as well. No DA list should leave home without typhoons.

Dont bother with taking Sammael, you are better of taking another termie squad instead.

A DA dread is expensive. A DA venerable is really expensive.

This is not the start list for or the points tally to make dualwing.

I like how the advice subtly changed since the last list .

So ok, I've changed my list a little bit to fit more with your advices, here's what I got :

Belial : LC

Dreadnougt : HF, Multi-melta

Dreadnougt : HF, Multi-melta

Ravenwing : Sergeant(meltabombs, power weapons) 2xmeltagun

Ravenwing : Sergeant(meltabombs, power weapons) 2xmeltagun

Deathwing Term : Standard, Apothecary, 2xLC+3x TH/SS, Cyclone

Deathwing Termi : 3xLC+2x TH/SS, Cyclone

So know I have 265 pts left to spend. Any idea how I should use them to optimize this list???

MFletch wrote:A DA dread is expensive. A DA venerable is really expensive.

This is not the start list for or the points tally to make dualwing.

I like how the advice subtly changed since the last list .

A DA dread is only 5 pts more than a Normal dread if you are going for a HF and not a MM. A Ven.Dread with HF costs 35pts less than the same Dread in a vanilla list (once again assuming no MM). So while the normal dread is overcosted the Ven.Dread is quite an OK buy. Especially seeing how everything except Typhoons costs more in the DA codex than in the vanilla one.

Also, is that last part directed towards me

tedurur wrote:

MFletch wrote:A DA dread is expensive. A DA venerable is really expensive.

This is not the start list for or the points tally to make dualwing.

I like how the advice subtly changed since the last list .

A DA dread is only 5 pts more than a Normal dread if you are going for a HF and not a MM. A Ven.Dread with HF costs 35pts less than the same Dread in a vanilla list (once again assuming no MM). So while the normal dread is overcosted the Ven.Dread is quite an OK buy. Especially seeing how everything except Typhoons costs more in the DA codex than in the vanilla one.

Also, is that last part directed towards me

No it is not. When this list was posted before by the OP there a couple of positive responses and nothing mentioning ravenwing. Suddenly now Sammael is the suggested unit, the list has just crossed that thresh hold where it starts to look like dualwing.

So virtually everything in DA costs about 5% more than elsewhere and we call DA expensive for it, this includes the dread despite being one of best options for Deathwing. Ven dreads for DA and vanilla are completely different you can not use that to compare prices. The upgrade is like a bad inv. save which is not worth the points, making a ven. dread a bad deal.

MFletch wrote:

tedurur wrote:

MFletch wrote:A DA dread is expensive. A DA venerable is really expensive.

This is not the start list for or the points tally to make dualwing.

I like how the advice subtly changed since the last list .

A DA dread is only 5 pts more than a Normal dread if you are going for a HF and not a MM. A Ven.Dread with HF costs 35pts less than the same Dread in a vanilla list (once again assuming no MM). So while the normal dread is overcosted the Ven.Dread is quite an OK buy. Especially seeing how everything except Typhoons costs more in the DA codex than in the vanilla one.

Also, is that last part directed towards me

No it is not. When this list was posted before by the OP there a couple of positive responses and nothing mentioning ravenwing. Suddenly now Sammael is the suggested unit, the list has just crossed that thresh hold where it starts to look like dualwing.

So virtually everything in DA costs about 5% more than elsewhere and we call DA expensive for it, this includes the dread despite being one of best options for Deathwing. Ven dreads for DA and vanilla are completely different you can not use that to compare prices. The upgrade is like a bad inv. save which is not worth the points, making a ven. dread a bad deal.

Ven.Dreads are the same except for having one less WS and BS ofc you can use that to compare prices. The Ven upgrade is quite similar to Holofields. Not as good overall but it is JUST as good as holofields when it comes to avoiding a destroyed result. 20pts for that is pretty well priced.

So no one got any suggestion to fill these last 265 points?

Well I have some idea about you list. I like runnning dualwing and I almost always use Sammael. I can understasnd not useing him. This is what i came p with.

Belial: LC

Dread: Plasma Cannon, HF
Dread: Plasma Cannon, HF

Deathwing Squad: Apoth, Banner, CML
Deathwing Squad: CML
Deathwing Squad: CML

Ravenwing x6: 2xPlasmagun
-Sgt: Melta bomb
Speeder: Typoon, MM
Speeder: Typoon, MM

1500 points on the nose. I like the plasma Cannon dreads as it help with other terminators and hard infantry. You really don't need more AT with all the missles I have got in the list. I also dropped the meltas on the bikes a you really don't want them that close to the enemy. Same reason I dropped the PW on the Sgt. Just some things that I have found while playing them. The bikes can Combat squad too if you wish.

Edit: The Terminators I didn't arm them as I figure it was your choice to arm them as you see fit. I useally do 2 TH/SS and 3 LCs. That is up to you.

Good luck!

thx for your advice. It's seems reasonnable not to put to much option on the bikers

Yeah at 2k I would take sammael so I can add a apoth to the bike squad to help with those overheating plasmas as well as making them troops.

I don't useally use Dreads that much but I think the Plasma dreads could be really useful.

Anyways Good Luck!

For the 265 pts 2 attack bikes and a further dread. 3 dreads working together becomes a much harder force to shift and if you did decide to go with template weapons it is nice to have the reassurance of numbers.
The attack bikes are just great value for money, homers+scout is great. I really wouldn't go for 6 bikes though as they are not killy enough for their price, if you were maybe going for sammael is good but would require a rewrite to make great, you could replace one squad with typhoons, this could still give you two units with homers.

tedurur wrote:
Ven.Dreads are the same except for having one less WS and BS ofc you can use that to compare prices. The Ven upgrade is quite similar to Holofields. Not as good overall but it is JUST as good as holofields when it comes to avoiding a destroyed result. 20pts for that is pretty well priced.

So ven. dreads are completely the same apart from being different . Comparing to holofields is good but the ven. status is much, much worse though cheaper so the comparison doesn't really help here.