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Do you think that you could use Stern's 'Zone of Banishment' after both he and any attached squad have both cast Hammerhand? This would mean that the attached squad would have strength 6 and thus be far better equipped to pass the strength test required for 'Zone of Banishment'.

The wording for Hammerhand states you use it before attacks are made and Zone of Banishment is used (by stern) in place of making close combat attacks. I think that you could do this but wanted to make sure I'm right. Stern is a level 2 mastery psyker btw. What do you think? Thanks!

Am I reading this right: Can B come before A if it says A comes before B?
No. . .

Or are you wondering if you can "promise" to swap attacks that are not occurring yet--in the manner of "I would gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today."
Which I do not think is allowed either.

kirsanth wrote:Am I reading this right: Can B come before A if it says A comes before B?
No. . .

Or are you wondering if you can "promise" to swap attacks that are not occurring yet--in the manner of "I would gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today."
Which I do not think is allowed either.

Ah, maybe I wasn't clear. Hammerhand is used before any attacks are made and Zone of Banishment is used in place of attacks so comes after Hammerhand meaning that A (hammerhand) comes before B (ZoB) in my example. So, the order in which they happen is - I think - clear but I was asking for clarification and also because I wanted to know whether you could use Hammerhand in this way to help pass the Strength test.

However, I have since found the answer from another source. A Strength test is always passed on a 1 but always fails on a 6 so really, what I am asking isn't totally relevant, although I believe that you could still cast 1 Hammerhand to allow you to pass with a 5 and that casting two would be useless. Hope that's right

Yes you can.

Before I10, you cast hammerhand. When it comes round to Sterns time to attack, which is definitely after Hammerhand, you are S6.

I still find it questionable that you can trade an attack that you do not have yet, especially since you cannot trade it if he is not attacking.

But I have not really read into it. Maybe I should change that.

/shrug

Just not sure what youre confused with there kirsanth....

He is casting Hammerhand which doesnt alter his ability to attack. After that point he casts Zone, which he can do, and he is now S5 making it easier to pass the test.

I thought characteristic tests are made on the unmodified value in the profile. If this is the case hammerhead makes no difference since you are still strength 4 and have two +1 modifiers for striking in combat. Then again I would need to double check the exact rules to be sure.

Can anyone confirm this?

If you read the characteristic test rules you will notice no such requirement

Sweeping Advance is made on unmodified I, however that is only because t specifically states so.

kirsanth wrote:I still find it questionable that you can trade an attack that you do not have yet, especially since you cannot trade it if he is not attacking.

But I have not really read into it. Maybe I should change that.

/shrug

I think I know what is confusing you here in this discussion.

You get stern into the assault, during his assault phase(either he assaults, or it is an ongoing combat: his assault phase means his Player's assault phase). You then cast Hammerhand while he is still part of the unit(right after assault moves have been made, but before any close combats are fought). You then "split" Stern off for who can make attacks and begin going through the Initiative steps. At I5 Stern can attack, he(his player) instead decides to use ZoB and takes the Psychic test.

The Power is used in place of his attacks and therefore is used when he would attack(since no other timing is given).

nosferatu1001 wrote:If you read the characteristic test rules you will notice no such requirement

Sweeping Advance is made on unmodified I, however that is only because t specifically states so.

I was mistaken. Although now reading more into it a powerfist states it doubles you're strength. A frost axe adds one to strength. Do you benefit from either of these modifiers in this case? Say I have multiple thunder hammers in a unit that mashers then strength 8. Do I use strength 4 or strength 8 for the test?

I would assume you would use your unmodified Str in that case, as the double strength is the strength of the weapon.

Power/Chain fist, Thunder hammer and Frost blade always add to the Str(by RAW)v The weapon in all these cases adds to the users Str, the weapon has no Str of it's own.

The Nilla marine Relic Blade only grants S6 for making attacks so would not be STr 6 for any tests.

Wichblades are only Str 9 vs Vehicles.

You really need to read each individual entry: if it adds/Multiplies the users/wielders Str and does not list a "during attacks", or any other restrictions, it is a permanent modifier. If the entry has any restrictions or specific model types it is only in relation to those model types/situations that the Str Bonus exists.

I'm looking at the codex right now, and I say yes you can.

Kommissar Kel wrote:I think I know what is confusing you here in this discussion.

While you are 100% correct, re-reading the actual rules instead of the original post made me realize I mixed up the order of operations.

I thought (as I posted originally) that the powers were used in the other order.

So . . . yea, back to the books.


(This is what I get for playing more Fantasy than 40k recently.)

I stupidly assumed that double str was the strength of the weapon due to all the arguments about "whatever vs monolith" threads.

Happyjew wrote:I stupidly assumed that double str was the strength of the weapon due to all the arguments about "whatever vs monolith" threads.

not stupidly at all; that is the common response you get in those thread, and hearing(or reading) something enough times tend to make it stand out more in your head; whether it is valid or not.

Page 8 of the rule book does talk about modifiers being taken into account. It's doesn't specifically state that you do or do not allow them but since it says you take into account 'any other modifier that might apply', I was under the impression that the S bonus provided by Hammerhand helps with a strength test. That seems to have been agreed here - thanks for the input everyone!