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First off, my Air Cav list:

HQ
-CCS with 2 meltas, regimental standard, vox-caster, commander with power fist, Astropath; mounted in a Valkyrie
135 points
-CCS with 2 meltas, regimental standard, vox-caster, commander with power fist; mounted in a Valkyrie
105 points


TROOPS
-4x Melta Vets with the "Demolitions" doctrine; mounted in Valkyries
120 points each


FAST ATTACK
-3x 2-strong Valkyrie squadrons with rocket pods
260 points per squadron


TOTAL: 1500 points



Now, my Mech list

HQ
-CCS with 3 meltaguns, regimental standard, Master of Ordnance, vox caster, mounted in a Chimera with AC
210 points


TROOPS
2x Platoons with:
-PCS with 3 meltaguns, platoon standard, vox-caster; mounted in a Chimera with TL HB
-2x Infantry Squads with flamer and mortar; mounted in a Chimera
-2x Heavy Weapon Squads with lascannons
525 point per platoon


FAST ATTACK
3x 2-strong Scout Sentinel Squadrons with autocannons
80 points per squadron


TOTAL: 1500 points



First off: why I chose the standards.
The main reason is I like the look of them, and that is an important reason to get into this hobby, for me at least. So I will keep them.

For the first list, I like it because it seems like that it would be a fun list to play.
For the second one, I like it because it lets me customize vehicles more.

Apart from the standards, please tell me what list you like, and what could be changed.

I like the air calv list moreso, alot of strong anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons. It feels a little more rounded.


The mech list is a little less desirable, mainly because of the heavy weapon squads; all your units around going to be out and about while those HW are sitting ducks, and with a LD7 and T3, that's not a good thing.

Could you possibly take out the Heavy Weapons for a Leman Russ?

Yeah, I could do that.
Taking out the HWS will give me 300 points. With that I could stick in 2 LRBT's.

Yea, barebones LRBT's are cost efficient and an armor 14 is nothing to sneeze at, and they can scoot 6" and fire everything.

Glad to still see some more input

So now that the mech list has no lascannon teams, and instead has LRBT's, which would you prefer?

Well then its a matter of personal taste really.

The mech list might need a little more forethought because the infantry squads need to set up there heavy weapons after you've deployed them.

I don't usually like using Infantry Platoons in Chimeras (The Platoon Command Squad mostly), because the transports become a points liability. But with the multilaser/heavy flamer/heavy bolter on the tank should provide alot of anti-infantry capability.

The Air Calvary list has alot of power, but its more fragile. Moving Vendettas/Valks flat out gives them a minor cover save +5, and getting them into the right position will make them vulnerable to heavy weapons.

Have you seen Blackhawk Down? The Air Calv would be alot like that.

I have indeed seen Black Hawk Down. It is pretty much my favorite war movies.

I suppose that that is indeed what it would look like (except when moving flat out, as the rules seem to indicate that they just jump out while moving, and use some sort of anti-grav/parachute/thingy device to get to ground safely).

The Air Cav list looks pretty solid, based on what little I know. Though you might consider swapping two of the Valks for two 'Dettas to get some more mobile, long-range anti-tank firepower. They're the same points cost as MRP Valks, so you won't have to change your list to accommodate them.

Also, vox-casters only benefit you if the squad you're attempting to give orders to also have vox-casters (Codex: Imperial Guard, p. 71). Getting rid of those would give you enough points to give somebody a plasma pistol.

Further edit: I think the point values for your vets is wrong. If you have "Demolitions" and three meltas, they should cost 130 each. If you have two meltas and a vox-caster in each squad, they should be 125pts. each. Only if you have 'Demolitions', TWO meltas and no other equipment would they be 120 points (Codex: Imperial Guard, p. 98).

Also, you can't give Orders to troops in vehicles and you can't give Orders out of Vehicles (except a Chimera due to the 'Command Vehicle' special rule).

Also... LC HWSs are 105pts... how 2 of these squads equals 300pts makes me question your math here.

The fists and standard are also a waste. A 5 man squad will not live long enough to get Init 1 Str 6 shots in CC. You can use those 60pts to get a 3rd Melta for all of your units. To bad you don't have 20pts to get the last two melta guns for your CCSs.

In your Chimera list, the MoO is a waste because you can't move and use him. Since you have some Scout Sentinels, I would go with a Astropath instead. Again, voxs are a waste because all the units you can give orders to are either in Chimeras, vehicles themselves, or can't be given voxs. You also have listed 3 Melta guns, a Vox, and a Standard (5 slots) and your CCS can only has 4 slots, so your Mech list is illeagle. Your PCS has the same problem. You have 5 items in 4 slots.

Those flamers in the PIS should be melta guns, because you need them and it gives them some AT punch. That is a job for hull heavy flamers anyways. Mortors should be dropped to help upgrade those flamers to melta guns. Give at least 1 PIS a AC for rear objective camping.

Even though your losing your long range AT in your Mech list, I do think two LRBTs to go with your 6 Chimeras helps it alot. I think more Chimeras and a option or two to camp your rear objective is needed. This is where your HWSs would have shined because they /are/ troops. But a PIS with a melta and a AC in a Chimera can work.

Good luck.

Oops! May bad! Will edit my lists, and then post new ones.

And how is a HWS 105 points? The base cost is 60, with LC it is 75 per squad.

forruner_mercy wrote:Oops! May bad! Will edit my lists, and then post new ones.

And how is a HWS 105 points? The base cost is 60, with LC it is 75 per squad.

60 + 15 for each lascannon swapped for the mortar

the cost is for each team and there are three in the hws

It is for each team? That should have been written better, because in my codex it does not say "per team".

You may exchange their mortar for another weapon; meaning you've already purchased the squads, but you have to buy the Heavy Weapon to replace the Mortar.

So its 60 points for three Heavy Weapon Teams, 15 Points to replace the mortar with the las cannon, so 3x15 = 45 Points; 45+60=105

I just did not know that it cost 15 points per team.

Options:
Any Heavy weapon team may exchange its mortor for a:
(list of points for equipment I will not post per Dakka Dakka rules)

Composition:
3 Heavy weapon teams

pg 97 IG Dex

I kinda fail to see how this is confusing. The same process works for CCS and PCS. You have a Commander and 4 guardsmen. There is a list of equipment given and it says 'One Guardsman can have' or 'Replace Two Guardsmen for a HWT'. Just like above a PCS they list what units a platoon is composed of and how it works for coming in from Reserves. You just have to do a better job of not skipping text.

The thing is, usually, if it is per whatever, then it will say it, like for the CCS and PCS, it says X-points per model.
Really, I just wish it specifically said X-points per HWT.
But anyway, back on topic. And I have a question.

What would I need to do to base an army around Ogryns?

I personally run a 10 man Ogryn squad in my 2k list, so I have alot of experience with them. The best I have done with them is wiping out a 5 man TH/SS terminator squad in CC... and they charged me. The worse was getting the a 5 man squad wiped from a single Vindicator shot. Str 10 large blast markers suck.

Pretty much, you look at doing this around 2k because they are the most expensive troops you have. I also feel they /need/ a Lord Commissar with a Power Fist or Power Weapon, otherwise your just hoping your opponent fails their armor saves.

The bad thing about the Lord is that he has this habbit of executing your Bone Ead... and that is not cool. You also can't put Priests with them, which would be awesome if you could. I have finially determind that Yarrick is the best solution. He doesn't execute guys, he has a power weapon and is bad-ass in close combat.

Another thing is using them with a power blob list as the skirmishers in front of the blobs. A 10 man squad in a 20"+ spread gives your blobs a easy cover save for incomming fire. They are durable at T 5 and W 3 and have Stubborn. Their weapons are also assault 3 Str 5 (even at 12" and allowing all armor saves), it is pretty sweet to pump out 30+ shots a turn.
When they get in CC, this allows your blobs to follow up and get their PW attacks in to give them the needed PW punch they desperatily need.

Another reason to have a Lord Commissar or Yarrik is walker defense. A single walker gets stuck in and they are done because they can't hurt it. You need to follow up quickly with a squad that /can/ do something to a walker in CC, like a properly kitted out power blob with melta bombs.

I don't like them in Chimeras because only 2 can shoot out of the hatches and it only carries 5 of them. Sure, if that Chimera blows up they kinda laugh it off and stand up dusting themselves off, but I feel they lose alot of effectivness starting out that small. You really ask yourself why these are not Melta or plasma vets instead.

You don't want to coddle them, you want them to get shot at and get wounds, because that means the rest of your army /isn't/ getting shot at. And the scary thing is these guys in a 10 man squad can actually take it and still be effective. The Enemy has to do 30+ wounds to wipe it out (depends if you have Yarrick or a Lord) and that is actually pretty hard to do in the first few rounds of a game.

Thanks for that info!

I came up with a new Mech List (there are some IA things in here):

HQ - 180 points
-CCS with 4 meltas, Astropath; mounted in a Chimera with AC---180 poits


FAST ATTACK - 240 points
-3x 2-strong Scout Sentinel Squadrons with autocannons---80 points per squadron


TROOPS - 1025 points
-Platoon---675 points
-PCS with 4 meltas; mounted in a Chimera with TW HB---135 points
-3x Infantry Squads with flamers; mounted in Chimeras---110 points per squad
-2x HWS's with lascannons---105 points per squad
-2x Veteran Squads with plasma guns and "Grenadiers" doctrine; mounted in Chimeras with dozer blades---175 points per squad


TOTAL: 1445 points


All that leaves me 55 points to play with. What should I spend it on?
Also, I am using the "Grenadiers" doctrine so I can put the Kasrkin models (which are cool) to good use, instead of using Storm Troopers.

Your math is off. Really off.

Vets - 210pts
Genadiers, 3x Plasma guns, Chimeras, Dozer blades

To be fair, you only have 'plasma guns', so 2 to 3 of them, but even with 2, your unit should cost 195pts, not 175pts.

Your PCS is 125pts, not 135pts.

Your CCS is 185pts, not 180pts.

To be honest, I would drop the AC from your CCS unless your using it to stay back and give Orders to your HWSs. If your holding it back, get a LC and plasma guns for it. A CCS with meltas should otherwise be an attacking vehicle.

Drop the dozer blades from the Vet Chimeras.

Make sure your attacking Chimeras have hull heavy flamers.

Why two heavy bolters on the PCS Chimera? Unless TW means something else...and there is no equipment in the Dex for Chimeras that TW is short for. To fire both your not moving, yet you have meltas. You really want to be moving forward if your packing meltas in Chimeras.

Why have your PIS special weapons as flamers? That is what the hull heavy flamer should be for. They need melta guns so a vehicle can actually not want to get close to them.

PIS are not as effective as Vets, but I can respect the HWSs. Those HWSs could use a Lord Commissar to baby sit them though... but I can see leaving them behind naked as /everything/ else moves up to attack. They are troops so can hold a rear objective. Just make sure to destroy anything coming into from reserves into your rear, otherwise they will run rampant back there.

The "TW-HB" in this case stands for twin-linked heavy bolters. It is in the first IA book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I am changing it out.