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Im looking at running this type of list but I am 30 points over 2500. So needing some help on where to make the 30 point cut from and also looking on some advice on the list as this is my first stab at Dark Angels.

HQ
- Belial
- Sammael - Landspeeder

Troops
- Deathwinng Terminators x5 TH/SS x5 CML, Apothecary & Standard Bearer. Belial goes in this unit
- Deathwinng Terminators x5 TH/SS x5 CML
- Deathwinng Terminators x5 TH/SS x5 CML
- Deathwinng Terminators x5 TH/SS x5 CML
- Raven Wing Assault Squad Bike Squad x5 (Melta Gun x2), Attack Bike w/multi Melta, & Landspeeder
- Raven Wing Assault Squad Bike Squad x5 (Melta Gun x2), Attack Bike w/multi Melta, & Landspeeder

Fast Attack
Raven Wing Support Squadron
- Landspeeder x2 Multi-Melta x2, Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Landspeeder x2 Multi-Melta x2, Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Landspeeder x2 Multi-Melta x2, Typhoon Missile Launcher

My strategy with this army is to use my Raven Wing squads to boost accross the table on tunr 1 and provide my Deathwing squads a sufficient place to teleport in with their homing beacons. My four deathwing squads will be running in for assault while my raven wing squads both attack and support squads will be running around shooting everything. So looking for some advice on the list as well as where to drop the 30 points at.

Why not get Apothecary for a bike squad?
Also I would rework it to get 3 preds or vindis.

Probably drop a typhoon as squadron rules are not great. You could lose a whole squadron from a heavy bolter.

Well I like what you have for a start. I do think some things could be changed. I am guessing all of your terminators are in reserve to DS? If so I would suggest against that. You really need more on the board then just some bikes and some speeders. Both can die pretty fast and with you turbo boosting the bikes forward you are just asking they be assaulted. I am not really a fan on Meltas on bikes either, they have to get to close and die. Typhoons are awesome as I am sure you have found out and really cheap too. Well this is what I came up with as I think it gives you more fire power and alot more models.

Belial: LC's
Sammael: Speeder

Dread: Plasma Cannon, HF
Dread: Plasma Cannon, HF

Deathwing Squad: Apoth, Banner, CML
Deathwing Squad: CML
Deathwing Squad: CML
Deathwing Squad: CML
Ravenwing x6: Apoth, 2x Plasmgun
-Sgt: Meltabomb

Speeder: Typhoon, MM
Speeder: Typhoon, MM
Speeder: Typhoon, MM

Vindicator: EA
Vindicator: EA
Vindicator: EA

I feel this list is pretty heavy on AT and AI killing with the templates and high str long range support. This is something I might run if I was to play at 2500. I don't play that high useally so don't really know how well it would do. I didn't but what is on the terminators as you can choose what you want. I do feel like you should have some with LC's. You will get swarmed by hordes with just TH/SS. I useally run my squads 2x TH/SS(Sgt and Bubba) and 3x LC's(CML an 2 Bubbas). This give me 4 different targets for wound allocations. Anyways I give you this list for help. Do with it what you will.

Good luck!

Ok got a revised list and I appreicate the help got some great feedback and I think im moving in the right direction so let me know what you guys think of the revised list?

2500 Points
HQ:
- Belial
- Sammael not sure if im gonna run him on his jet bike or his 14 front and side armor land speeder

Elite:
- Venerable Dreadnought Heavy Flamer; Plasma Cannon; Venerable
- Venerable Dreadnought Heavy Flamer; Plasma Cannon; Venerable


Troops:
- Deathwing Terminator Squad (5) Cyclone Missile Launcher, TH/SS x3, LC, Apothecary, Standard Bearer, Sgt w/ Chain Fist
- Deathwing Terminator Squad (5) Cyclone Missile Launcher, TH/SS x3, LC, Sgt w/ Chain Fist
- Deathwing Terminator Squad (5) Cyclone Missile Launcher, TH/SS x3, LC, Sgt w/ Chain Fist
- Deathwing Terminator Squad (5) Cyclone Missile Launcher, TH/SS x3, LC, Sgt w/ Chain Fist
- Raven Guard Attack Squadron x6 Bikes Apothecary, x2 Plasma Gun, x3 Chainswords, Sgt. w/Power Weapon & Melta Bombs, Attack Bike Multi-Melta

Fast:
- Ravenwing Support Squadron (1) Typhoon Missile Launcher; Multi-melta
- Ravenwing Support Squadron (1) Typhoon Missile Launcher; Multi-melta
- Ravenwing Support Squadron (1) Typhoon Missile Launcher; Multi-melta


Heavy Support:
- Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade, Extra Armor
- Vindicator w/ Dozer Blade, Extra Armor

Looks pretty solid. One piece of advice, you DON'T have to DWA every game.

A lot of players see that ability and immediately do it, even when it is more advantageous in some situations to deploy on the board normally and move up shooting.

I will definately take that advice as it does some very hard not to do but I can imagine there will be times someone will be trying to bait me into DWA

Why the Chainfist on the Sgt's? I don't really see what your gettting out of it. If you want the Chainfist put it on a different guy and give him a TH/SS that why you have bigger wound allocation shenanigans. If you truely meed a CF. I don't see it but thats your choice.

Sgt: TH/SS
TH/SS
TH/SS, CML
LC
Chainfist

Oh and I think Sammael is far better with the speeder, but that is a personal choice.

ok i see what you are saying

You do not want to get anywhere near combat with your bikes squad so I would drop the powersword at least. Alternatively take the banner as well, it'll look cool.
I think you need to play the list to work out if it fits you. You have a deathwing list with a nasty ravenwing edge. You may to replace a deathwing squad with 3 bikes and attack bike.
Chainfists are a little excessive but they may be needed.
I prefer preds. to vindis. Maybe taking three dreads and taking three more bikes may work better than the two vindis. This is really personal taste.

The only serious change I would suggest is splitting your bike squad into two threes and then dropping the ven. status and something else to give another attack bike. This increases the scoring units by one and increases melta units by one both seem small but you lack melta and scoring units for 2500pts. 6 men in apoth. squad is the right idea in general.

DWA sometimes should happen as well. Most of the time it is better to walk slowly across but then against Tau or guard for example usually DWA can be great.
Also outflanking the ravenwing will be good as they can come and claim objectives and the will still be alive.

tonyj357 wrote:ok i see what you are saying

What I really mean is why take them? But if you must, then that is the way I would do it. I really don't think they are needed with TH's in the squad.

The only reason I could see it is if you face alot of Land Raiders.

Well last nigh played my first game with this list and decided to run all TH/SS and the Sgt had LC. This saved my Terminator Squads and made for one very intersting game.

Positives:
- Ven. Dreads were amazing not only did thier shots make a world of difference but I eventually got them into close combat and they ate everything. Great multi-purpose units
- Belial was a beast, nothing else I can say for a 130 point model

Negatives:
- I made the mistake of allowing my Raven Wing to get assaulted and this cost me the unit. Next time I will run them a lot smarter and possibly combat squad them.
- Vindicators were not really that bad but because of their 24" range I lost one before a shot was ever fired but I will admit the 2nd one did its damage.Im going to consider two predators and see how that works.
- I did not DS my Terminators properly andpaid for it by loosing one squad out right (though I will admit I rolled 4 1's out of 6 invuln saves, terrible luck).

Even though I had some stuff go wrong and soem terrible rolls this was one of the closest games i've ever played and probably one of the most fun as well, it ended in a dramatic draw that came down to the my opponents very last shot tp tie it. Had we gone past turn 5 I think I would have come out winning but for the first time Im very pleased.