Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So im new to warmachine so I was wondering since my opponents will be cryx, another khador member and menoth what tactics/units do you use against these army's.

Also we all have agreed not to use WAAC units unless its for tourneys so any help is appreciated.

Cheers to all comments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cheers for moving thread.

There is no such thing as a WAAC unit.

What do you have and what do they have? Different casters and different opponent setups require different strategies.

When I mean WAAC I mean stuff which are nigh unkillable or very hard to.

Welcome to WM/Hordes.

Unlike 40k, there are no real WAAC units. There are certain units that will make your opponent's turn 'less fun', as it may remove some of their activation/decision making--however those are limited to a couple of feats/casters I believe. But no, there are no 'Razorback spam, I win first turn but we'll play it out' units in the game (that I've seen so far).

You should really ask yourself if you want to go infantry heavy or jack heavy--then build from there if you're playing Khador. IMHO, Khador does infantry heavy armies better than Jack heavy armies--but you could potentially run either. What kind of play style or units interest you?

AgeOfEgos wrote:Welcome to WM/Hordes.

Unlike 40k, there are no real WAAC units. There are certain units that will make your opponent's turn 'less fun', as it may remove some of their activation/decision making--however those are limited to a couple of feats/casters I believe. But no, there are no 'Razorback spam, I win first turn but we'll play it out' units in the game (that I've seen so far).

You should really ask yourself if you want to go infantry heavy or jack heavy--then build from there if you're playing Khador. IMHO, Khador does infantry heavy armies better than Jack heavy armies--but you could potentially run either. What kind of play style or units interest you?

I think its the massive lack of light jacks that don't play well into "Jack heavy lists"... But yeah, infantry heavy lists seem to do me the best... I tend to run 2 jacks, and the rest infantry...

I agree--and would also add that I found many Khador heavies to be focus hungry--while their castors are generally focus light.

I mean, imagine a pNemo with Junior, Squire and Strange--pushing Khador heavies. Hah.

AgeOfEgos wrote:I agree--and would also add that I found many Khador heavies to be focus hungry--while their castors are generally focus light.

I mean, imagine a pNemo with Junior, Squire and Strange--pushing Khador heavies. Hah.

Yeah, this is mostly why I play my Hordes... I prefer to generate, rather than allocate... It lets me decide if that one extra attack is going to be worth it

Well I do like the infantry models and I heard that Khador is a slow army but can take punishment (and dish it back out hopefully).

Are the spriggans and man o war guys any good? (I was thinking having 2 spriggans protecting my warcaster is this wise?)

I don't have much experience with Spriggans or some of the Man o Wars, but my Man O War Demo Corps have found themselves putting holes in jacks like its nobody's business...

And "slow" is quite the relative term... I mean my Dire Trolls are "slow" and I still manage to get Mulg 11 inches or so on the charge (with his 2 inch reach) there isn't much that is out of his reach...

Khador has ways of making their jacks faster (which is scary when you think about it). Sorcha I believe has spells to move models around, I know pVlad's feat doubles the speed of the warjacks in his battlegroup (so they go from 4 to 8), so you're charging 11 inches down the throat of your opponent. Also, 16 inches on the run, meaning you can cross the board like a cryx bonejack.

Sorcha can cast boundless charge giving a model charge with +2" to movement and pathfinder. It great because they think they are just out of charge range but then SURPRISE! beast 09 in your face.

I like strakhov better. Superiority on a jack and then his feat turn means jack to face like nobodies business

Deepeyes wrote:Sorcha can cast boundless charge giving a model charge with +2" to movement and pathfinder. It great because they think they are just out of charge range but then SURPRISE! beast 09 in your face.

Thats the spell I was thinking of!

Yeah, Khador is faster than they look, also if you run kayazy assassins, they're super quick, and believe me, they eat warcasters for breakfast. I've never won a game where they've been on the field. So while they only have 4 SPD, Khador can make them so much better with a spell here or there. It doesn't hurt the fact that several of your casters have high focus pools, so they can afford to cast spells like boundless charge, and not worry about running out of focus...

Commisar Wolfie wrote:I like strakhov better. Superiority on a jack and then his feat turn means jack to face like nobodies business

As someone that has seen firsthand what a Superiority Beast can do--I'll second that. After facing several different Khador casters--I consider Strakhov the one I'm most afraid to face. His feat really force multiplies everything---and Superiority is just a damn good spell. Add his Stealth spell--and you have a really strong caster.

Yes khador can be really fast. I've just started using Strakhov, and superiority on beast or spriggan combined with reach gives a 15" threat range on feat turn! My uhlans have a 17" threat range on feat turn.

As mentioned the big thing is to pick jack heavy or infantry heavy. PButcher and Karchev seem to be the best jack casters in Khador. Zerchova also does ok with up to three jacks if you run Sylys for a free upkeep, and koldun lord for a powerboost. Under those conditions she's the only khador caster who actually has some spare focus sometimes. Some people hate her, but i've had good luck with against everyone except cignar.

Strahkov is really cool as a character, ( theme, and in fluff ) but he's not very good. He's definitely not a top tier caster. Kind of a one-trick pony in some respects.

Once your opponent understands your bum rush, they'll take advantage of it. Iron Fist requires that the target models be in his meager 12" ctrl area, which means he's always horribly out of position on his feat turn. Of course your charging models have gotten the alpha strike, but if your enemy has properly prepared for that you're kind of a sitting duck.

He's also got lots of good spells but very little focus.

Cool looking model though. Great fluff. Definitely a caster that requires some finesse to get the most out of. Terrible tier list though - AKs sucking so harshly and all.

correlation2 wrote:
Once your opponent understands your bum rush, they'll take advantage of it. Iron Fist requires that the target models be in his meager 12" ctrl area, which means he's always horribly out of position on his feat turn. Of course your charging models have gotten the alpha strike, but if your enemy has properly prepared for that you're kind of a sitting duck.

You know the 'jack doesn't have to be in command to use focus. Starting the run from 12" away from Strakhov doesn't matter if you've set it up correctly. Your "counter" of if they're prepared counters most every assassination run out there.

He's also got lots of good spells but very little focus.

This is true for alot of casters. This is also why his second jack is a Kodiak. Load up a Beast/Spriggan, Upkeep Superiority, cast overrun (if needed)/Dump focus on the Kodiak and feat. Everything he needs right there. Charging for free is a huge benefit for Warmachine armies.

Cool looking model though. Great fluff. Definitely a caster that requires some finesse to get the most out of. Terrible tier list though - AKs sucking so harshly and all.

If you consider multiple jack bullets to be finesse, then ok. Most of the Warmachine tiers are terrible so this isn't really news or a drawback.

lol, what?

You still can't load a jack outside of ctrl range, which should be a non-issue since they should be in. What I mean is that in order to benefit from Iron Fist, the target of the charge has to be within 12" of Strahkov. That means that if your target is say, a caster deeper in enemy lines, Strahkov has to end his activation basically at the very front of your army.

From there you've got Beast and a Kodiak, apparently. Your mileage is going to vary. Beast can kill virtually anything, but, against a good opponent you should only catch him with Beast's 21" assassination once. I mean if you have an easy opponent you can pretty much exploit any character endlessly.



It's not that he's bad strictly say, but he isn't nearly as powerful as say Sorscha or Vlad. I'm even willing to say that unusual casters like Old Witch are better. If I had to tier the casters he'd be down with Zerkova in terms of overall greatness.

correlation2 wrote:
You still can't load a jack outside of ctrl range, which should be a non-issue since they should be in. What I mean is that in order to benefit from Iron Fist, the target of the charge has to be within 12" of Strahkov. That means that if your target is say, a caster deeper in enemy lines, Strahkov has to end his activation basically at the very front of your army.

Who said anything about loading it outside command? I said USE focus. And yes, he has to be forward and then everything else moves up in front of him or engages the threats.

From there you've got Beast and a Kodiak, apparently. Your mileage is going to vary. Beast can kill virtually anything, but, against a good opponent you should only catch him with Beast's 21" assassination once. I mean if you have an easy opponent you can pretty much exploit any character endlessly.

You're hard to impress if you think that two of the most reliable jacks are YMMV. This is also where strategy comes into play is setting it up. If you're only good enough to pull it off once, that's not a fault of the caster. Against a good opponent, most tricks should be counterable, but you still see the same Legion, Skorne, Cryx, and Circle lists winning time and again.

It's not that he's bad strictly say, but he isn't nearly as powerful as say Sorscha or Vlad. I'm even willing to say that unusual casters like Old Witch are better. If I had to tier the casters he'd be down with Zerkova in terms of overall greatness.

Uh, Old Witch is one of the top tier casters just like all the other IF casters. Most of the consensus puts Strakhov is just below the IF's casters since he makes things so insanely fast.

FWIW, I do hope you're not talking about pSorcha, who every horde player loves to see since they can effectively negate her feat for very little effort.

Legion just ignores half the game's rules. XP