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I have been wanting to start Warmachine for some time now but my gaming group doesn't play it. I have however recently joined another gaming group who are also about to start warmachine. I won't be starting until around April or May as I am building up my 40k armies.

In 40k I play Tau and Blood Angels. But I do like most of the armies.

I am stuck between 3 armies of which will be my first army.

Khador
I like the idea of them. They can take alot of punishment and dish it out in CC but no real ranged abilities as far as I know.

Cryx
Probably one of the top two. Quick, undead and destroy you up close. But they are fragile and need tactics to play well. Which is what worries me.

Cygnar
The other of my two favourites. They are shooty like the Tau. But other than that I don't know anything about them. As I have not seemed to see many people asking about them. Which got me to think that they are underpowered. Yes I know that people say all forces in Warmahordes are balanced but still.

So I have a number of questions:
1) How good are Cryx's ranged abilities?
2) Do Cygnar have any CC abilities and how are they compared to other factions?
3) Can they hold out in CC with units from Cryx and Khador?
4) Are Cygnar competative or are they just a fun race that will get trounced.
5) What is the most well rounded force so they are decent at both CC and ranged capabilities?

I have been stuck between Cygnar and Cryx for a while now and am now wondering what I should start with. And also how I should start wether I should get a Battle Bpx or start from scratch.

From what I've seen Cygnar does the combined approach very well. There a number of cc jacks and nits that you can take to balance out the list with the more ranged units and jacks. Usually I think the best way to start is with the battlebox.

redkeyboard wrote:
1) How good are Cryx's ranged abilities?

They have some specialty stuff like Pistol Wraiths and the
Ghost cannon crew, but a majority of the units you will build
lists around centers on melee troops.

2) Do Cygnar have any CC abilities and how are they compared to other factions?

All factions have close combat. Cygnar have storm dudes of
various flavor that have lightning based attacks Sword Knights.
I'll say that they don't have quite the variety as other factions
do, but other factions don't have the same variety of ranged
attacks that Cygnar does.

3) Can they hold out in CC with units from Cryx and Khador?

Depends. Cygnar troops aren't built for durability. They generally
have enough durability to withstand small arms fire, but not an
infantry charge.

4) Are Cygnar competative or are they just a fun race that will get trounced.

All factions are competitive. Do you enjoy the models and/or
playstyle? That's what's important. Also, the playstyle you choose
might determine the amount of competitiveness.

5) What is the most well rounded force so they are decent at both CC and ranged capabilities?

Not Cryx. I'd say Khador (strong melee, some incredible
shooting options due to support models and 'caster buffs).

do not underestimate khador ranged threats. Range 14 inch POW 14 bombards, Range 20 POW 16 mortars, ample amounts of Range 14 snipers, winter guard rifle corp who share the range 14 stat, as well as the universallu known winter guard infantry who can all have flame template style weapons.

A general advice: Do not look at the factions with 40k in mind! Warmachine and Hordes are very,very different games. Things that you like and do in 40k might not work at all in Warmachine.

- Cygnar can shoot and has a lot of ranged buffs, but Warmachine/ Hordes is still a melee focused game. In fact Cygnar prefers a combined arms approach ( even tough they can focus on melee or ranged). That said they are in no way underpowered, but seem to be unappealing for some reason ( seriously out of 10 guys that start warmachine 3 will start Cryx, 3 Khador and 3 Menoth, the other guy goes either Cygnar or Mercs [ not a fact]). They place average in Tourneys and seem to be quite popular in polls. Generally bringing an all ranged list is a safe way, to give your enemy an easy win.Note: If have yet to see a cygnar army in real life, i played them once over vassal and thats about it

- Khador is in my opinion the most well rounded faction. They can beat face in melee but they can produce a ridicouls amount of firepower. As a matter of fact most of things i would recommend for a new khador player are ranged stuff ( Widowmakers, Winterguard,....). I have to admit i still wonder where the whole " Khador is melee!" comes from, because they do both things very well ( they do have more melee buffs, i have to admit)

- Cryx: Has ranged options, but they are seldomly used. They are generally short ranged and inaccurate ( that can be remedied by debuffs), but generally Cryx doent do anything for ranged units. They ( like the Skorne) are propably the most melee focused faction in the game.

The only ranged support spells/abilities that Cryx brings to the table are general debuffs that work equally well with melee. Given that we have a ton of melee buffs though, it could be argued these debuffs benefit melee more since melee gets even more support elsewhere. To have a more solid ranged attack presence Cryx often has to look to Mercenaries such as Nyss Hunters (amazing) and Croe's Cutthroats (only amazing with Scaverous thanks to Telekinesis).

Vombaticus wrote: seriously out of 10 guys that start warmachine 3 will start Cryx, 3 Khador and 3 Menoth, the other guy goes either Cygnar or Mercs

a Ret player.


[I know you said not a fact]

Really? The local journeyman I saw at least two Cygnar newbies,
one trollbloods, and one or two Retribution. I think it just differs
by area.

Oh uhm i'm sorry angry elves!
I totally forgot about them, mainly because they are not exactly popular around here.

Cryx has range support in the form of spells and sprays. Usually the warcaster and their arcnodes, but there are others in the army. Shooting tends to be from a solo or warjack, not from a unit. So yes, you will have some ranged, but your main goal is usually to beat face in melee.

Cygnar is best as a combined arms. You generally go with some nice shooting units like a defender, hunter or gunmages and then back them up with some solid infantry like Stormblades or Precursors. But it really depends on the caster. Even Seige, Sloan and Caine often like some melee units to screen and tie up enemy units. And eStryker and Constance both can run an all melee cygnar list that can stand up to other melee oriented lists.

Khador also excells as a combined arms force. I haven't played them yet, but have gone up against them alot. They can definately lay down some fire. But the lists I have run up against still rely more on engaing you in CC than killing you thru shooting. But units like widowmakers can pick off support and put the hurt on one wound units from afar.

Pick the faction you like the look or playstyle of. There are no real underdog factions.
The developers have been careful about that.
You can still make a bad list or have a bad matchup, but in general its the player that matters.

With the right caster, either Haley, Cygnar can make an absolutely brutal gunline.
The balance is that if you have a bad.round of shooting, you are getting slaughtered in melee.

I had a melee focused list get handled by a trencher+long gunner combo backed by pStryker.

I've found that a combined arms approach is good for all armies in wm/h.
If like cryx, you don't have shooting, you take a super fast unit and run them to engage the shooting units.
An all gunline list still needs something else to deal with heavy jacks.