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Hey there. I've been skimming through my Black Templars dex, and am a bit at odds with the Sword Brethren. First off, they count as elite units: ok, understandable. Second off all, they have relatively no differences from regular Initiates. They seem to be a close combat orientated unit choice, but yet they only have 1 basic attack. Sure, if you purchase terminator honors, you get that additionl hit, and with a bolt pistol and close combat wep you get yet another bonus. But all this begs the question: are they worth it? First off, I will mostly be playing against a Necron army, so you'll notice me taking into account that army's strengths (e.g. Feel No Pain).
So, say you have 14 Sword Brethren. With Terminator Honors each, that comes out to be 406 points, and they gain Furious Charge for free.
Now, consider 10 Assault Terminators. 400 points, +15 points for Furious Charge to balance out the comparison. More or less the same.

14 Sword Brethren: With Terminator Honors and two weapons, these guys get 3 base attacks. Regular close combat weapons, basic 3+ save.
10 Terminators: With a pair of lightning claws, they're at 3 base attacks. Lightning claws are power weapons with re-rolls to hits and the Termies have a 2+ save (with that 5+ invulnerable if needed).

So, is it just me, or are things looking pretty bleak for the Sword Brethren?
Now, I know that incorporating math into a wargame isn't the greatest idea and at best, dampens the fun. But, it still has its uses, and even though your dice rolls are what really matter, this following calculation should give us a bit of a general image.

Say we're facing X necrons. We charged in, and get the +1 attack and the Furious Charge bonus. 14 Brethren put out 56 attacks, hit on half and wound on 2/3, so we inflict about 18 wounds. Necrons get the 3+ save AND their Feel No Pain save. So, about 6 wounds pass through the armor. Now, after Feel No Pain rolls, we're left with 3 wounds on the Necrons.

10 Termies: 40 attacks, 20 hit, and another 10 hit after the missed re-rolls. 30 hits, of which 2/3 wound. We're left with 20 wounds that ignore armor saves AND Feel No Pain Saves.
To recap, I know that this was a bit flawed of a calculation, as Termies are just generally better suited to take down Necrons than Brethren are, so I suppose my general question is: Which situations are Sword Brethren useful in? I'm guessing they have their uses vs. IG type infantry, but even then, they cost 29 points to be any good! (with Terminator honors).

Also, just on a side note, are Feel No Pain saves taken before or after Armor Saves? Thanks!

You have solved the riddel of the black templars.

The internet troll gives you a thumbs up. *thumbs up*

Countrary to most people on the internet's opinion, Sword Brethren aren't completely gak at all. They're good at counter-assaulting MEQ stuff. Let's say your CML Terminator have been charged by a nasty unit of Grey Hunters. There's 9 of them, along with a Wolf Guard with a power fist.

DISCLAIMER: I'm rounding upwards if it's X.5 or higher, but only during the to wound roll.

On the charge they get 27 attacks, hitting 15,75 (rerolling 1's) and wounding 9 (again, rerolling 1's). This is 1,5 dead Terminators, so let's assume the worst and have 2 die. You then strike back with your 6 Power Fist attacks, netting 4,5 hits and 4 wounds, killing 4 of his dudes. The Wolf Guard attacks with 3 attacks, of which 2 hit due to rerolls of 1's. Odds are you'll save one of them (66.6666666666666666666...%), so one of yours die. You win combat by 1, but they likely stick around and will wipe out your Terminators next turn. This is when your five Sword Brethren, who have been chilling in their Lazorback nearby, jump out and save the Terminators.

They deal an average of 4 Power Weapon wounds on the charge, with an additional 5 wounds from the normal guys. Assuming that the Space Wolf player wants the Wolf Guard to live, he allocates the power weapon wounds to his other 5 dudes, putting two normal wounds on the Wolf Guard. This gives his Wolf Guard a 44% chance of survival. His Melta-gun dude (which he'll obviously have) will take one for the team and take 2 Power Weapon Wounds. The Wolf Standard thingamajig that grants rerolls will likely take one for the team as well, taking 1 of the PW wounds. That leaves us with 1 Power Weapon wound and 3 normal, meaning that on average 2 more marines die, leaving only 2 Grey Hunters. These Grey Hunters then struggle to do anything meaningful and die a horrible and messy death to Power Fists. You have 2 Terminators left, who are hopefully the 2 guys with CMLs.

Even without Terminator Honours, a 5-man squad with a Power Weapon and a pair of Claws are only 140 points. The crucial point is, they get to strike before other MEQ on the charge AND they can Sweeping Advance. You also don't need Terminator Honours; 4 Power Weapon wounds on average will do quite a bit of mangling versus other MEQ, and you don't have to buy a Land Raider if you want them to get to their target intact. Also, consider that Necrons suck in CC and that they don't get their "Feel No Pain" (which is actually "We'll Be Back!") until AFTER the combat is completed, and that they can get it even if you have power weapons if they're in range of a Resurrection Orb, and you realize how big of a difference being able to sweeping advance can be. Terminators are also completely hamstrung if they have to charge into cover and they're not in a Land Raider; having no way to get grenades hurts.

Where they REALLY shine, however, is when you put your Emperor's Champion with them. In a shooty list, you have to put him SOMEWHERE, and having him along with 5 Sword Brethren gives you a pretty mean counter-assault unit. Imagine the scenario with the Grey Hunters above, except instead of some surviving they die to a man. That's an average of 7 Power Weapon wounds on the charge, at I5. Great for clearing out stuff like Death Company, Berzerkers, Sanguinary Guard, Strike Squads without Halberds (yeah, I know, not likely, but still) and the like.