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Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





This is my first guard army, and I'm looking to do something just a bit different than the standard mechvet spam. I'm not interested in feedback along the lines of "D00d, you totally need 6 vendettaz" as I already own most of the listed units, but loadout tips and a reasonable amount of unit changes would be helpful.

HQ
Company Command Squad
4 meltaguns
Chimera with multi-laser, heavy flamer, heavy stubber

Lord Commissar
vanilla

Troops
Veterans
2 meltas, 1 plasma, grenadiers
Chimera, as above

Veterans
2 meltas, 1 plasma, grenadiers
Chimera, as above

Infantry Platoon:
Platoon Command Squad
2 flamers, 2 plasma

Infantry Squad
1 plasma, Commissar (vanilla)

Infantry Squad
1 plasma

Infantry Squad
1 flamer

Heavy Weapon Squad
3 lascannons

40 Conscripts

Fast Attack
3 Scout Sentinels with autocannons

Heavy Support
Manticore
vanilla

Leman Russ Squadron
2 LRBTs with lascannons

Leman Russ Demolisher
Multi-melta sponsons, dozer blade

The idea is for the Lord Commissar to attach to the conscripts and bubble-wrap the Manticore (and possibly the battle tanks) while the main infantry blob holds the center of the table and the Demolisher and Chimeras push their back line. The sentinels outflank and look for opportunistic targets.

Things I'm not sure about:
1. I've heard people say grenadiers is not worth it. Would another doctrine be better? Or would I be better off investing that 60 points elsewhere?
2. How are the special weapon loadouts? I've used a lot of plasma and I don't know how good an idea that is. I'd like to fit more flamers, but sticking them in the powerblob seems sub-par and I don't know if I want to mitigate my tank-hunting punch on the mounted vets. Are the heavy flamers on the chimeras enough?
3. I'm really ambivalent about the sentinels. I like the idea of outflanking autocannons, but is one squad worth it? I might pick up a hellhound instead. If I do run them, is it better to concentrate their firepower by running them as a squadron, or spread out their threat by running 3 singles?
4. Should I be buying any gear for my commanders/sergeants/commissars? All of the options seem lackluster.
5. Should I run any other Russ variants? Nothing else seems quite as awesome as the ordnance cannons.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Aside from your numbered points:

- Bubble wrap the manticore with the conscripts and Lord Commissar, but do not include the Leman Ruses. They're better off moving and shooting than staying in a stationary bubble.

- If you're really worried about your Vets being able to hunt tanks, you can always take Demolitions; which outfits the Vets with Melta Bombs and a Demolition Charge. The Three Meltas merely extend their reach (unless they miss) which they could follow up by charging said vehicle.

- If your infantry squads are going to blob and not move, invest in a Heavy Weapon for each Infantry Squad. I'd go with either Auto Cannons or (at the risk of being reviled by other Guard Players) Missile Launchers.

1. Grenadiers isn't the best upgrade. It could be better spent on Demolitions if your vets are going out Tank Stomping.

2. I'm not a fan of plasma because of the nasty habit of killing their operators, so I'm rather biased on special weapon loadouts.

3. Setinels are fun in a squadron. Especially kitted out with Autocannons or Missiles, they can hunt offensive tanks with armor 12-13.

4. The only flexible things you should give your commanders is a Power Weapon or Melta Bombs or Krak Grenades. Other than those is just either for your entertainment or for dumping unspent points.

5. Leman Russ Battle Cannons are the basic and most useful weapon for a Russ, however, a Demolisher is a close runner up when playing a Mech Army. Executioners are another highly popular variant. The others are personaly preference really.

- 2000 Points
- 2000 Points

'We are the force which breaks the enemy's spear, shattering its haft with the teachings of Mont'ka!' - Commander WindSabre, Shas'O O'Shirada before the counter attack against the Raven Guard Space Marines on Tellidan II.


'The only perk from being a Captain is that I get my own private bathroom.'

Captain Esh of the 24th Iron Tortoise Artillery Regiment during an officer's speach a regimental inaugeration on Calador.  
   
Made in la
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





Earth

Its not bad. Just a few suggestions: I'd drop the grenadiers on the vets. You should take multiples of the same special weapon in your slots. It really maximes the units efficiency. So when you want something done and you assign the task to a certain unit there is a much greater possibility that they will be able to accomplish this. Drop the conscripts. Just take more guardsmen. Drop the sponsons on the demolisher. Drop the dozer blade. Drop the stubber on the CCS chimera. This will free up a ton of points to fill out your troops choices a bit.

   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say




WI

My idea of a properly kitted out offensive blob...

PIS - 120pts
Commissar, 2x PW, Melta gun, Melta bomb

PIS - 75pts
Melta gun, PW, Melta bomb

From that point on you add on PIS till your happy or points allow. For a defensive blob, give each PIS a AC to be able to shoot down range. The melta guns then turn into a defensive weapon that is useful against things like Terminators, Drop pod Dreads, and other power armor fun stuff. Plasma is tempted, but to expensive for a BS 3 trooper to really be effective.

1. I've heard people say grenadiers is not worth it. Would another doctrine be better? Or would I be better off investing that 60 points elsewhere?


It can be, but I feel it is the weakest of the Doctrines. You have to look at it that a base cover save is +4 for sitting half your guys in the woods. Cover saves don't care about the AP value of the attack, but do not help against template weapons like flamers. Sentries for camping Vets and Demolitions for attackers. Grenadiers is more of a fluff choice.

2. How are the special weapon loadouts? I've used a lot of plasma and I don't know how good an idea that is. I'd like to fit more flamers, but sticking them in the powerblob seems sub-par and I don't know if I want to mitigate my tank-hunting punch on the mounted vets. Are the heavy flamers on the chimeras enough?


Yes, hull heavy flamers on the Chimeras are enough if your doing all mech, but your doing hybred, so you may need more. Also, HHFs should be put on attacking Chimeras. If your camping them, leave the HBs on. As Bark said, do not mix special weapon load-outs.

3. I'm really ambivalent about the sentinels. I like the idea of outflanking autocannons, but is one squad worth it? I might pick up a hellhound instead. If I do run them, is it better to concentrate their firepower by running them as a squadron, or spread out their threat by running 3 singles?

I think neither the Sentinels or the Hell Hound are worth it. A Vehicle (Sentinels) that is worried about bolters is not something that inspires confidence. The Hound is limited in combat and the general rule is run at least two vehicles of a type or run none. Stuff like a manticore is an exception.

4. Should I be buying any gear for my commanders/sergeants/commissars? All of the options seem lackluster.


It isn't the gear that is lack luster, it is the stats of the troops the weapons are going on. In blobs, yes, it is /very/ important because they are not ICs, so can not be singled out in close combat. Every lasgun turns into a wound for a blob, and Stubborn from the Commissar means they are not going anywhere. In a lone 5 man squad or a 10 man squad, no, they are totally worthless in CC. I do on occasion buy a bolter, bolt pistol, or a plasma pistol depending on points left over or if I want to give a unit a Str 7 shot.

5. Should I run any other Russ variants? Nothing else seems quite as awesome as the ordnance cannons.

LRBTs are anti-infantry vehicles except for one, the Vanquisher. The Vanq though is really only good against vehicles though. You also have to ask yourself if a Vendetta (for less points) does a better job as a AT vehicle.
Demolishers are pretty good for assault lists where troops or Chimeras can support them. Executioners are fine for anti marine lists wehre the troops are not in vehicles. The base LRBT is fine for alittle more well rounded vehicle or if you just want to have some AV 14 on the board. The Exterminator and the Punisher are just to limited or have other vehicles (hydra) that do the same job better to be of real use (kinda like the Vanq and the Vendetta).

Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





I just realized what a bone-headed mistake I made with the Conscripts. I like the idea of pathetic cannon fodder quite a lot (it fits with my overall concept of the Guard) so I started from the premise that bubblewrap should be conscripts. Then I had to add a Lord Commissar to give the conscripts the ability to stand their ground.

40 Conscripts + Lord Commissar = 230 pts
40 Guardsmen + Commissar = 235 pts

So for 5 points and -1 LD, I can give them all +1 WS and +1 BS. For a few more points, I can actually give them things like Autocannons so they can defend their location more vigorously.

I need to crunch through the rest of the list before I post a revision. I'm sad to ditch the conscripts, since I had a cool kitbash ready to go to make them look like the regular guardsmen's weedy auxiliary.
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say




WI

Yeah, conscripts without the special character are... eh. I at least have never seen them used effectivily.

Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





To rework the list, I decided to scale it back to 1500 and then see what I had. I dropped a lot of the gear upgrades, as well as the conscripts, Lord Commissar, and sentinel squadron. What I ended up with fits pretty well with what I own right now.

HQ
CCS
4 meltas, Chimera w/ hull HF

Troops
Veterans
3 meltas, Chimera w/ hull HF
Veterans, as above
Infantry Platoon:
PCS, vanilla
Infantry squad w/ Commissar, plasma gun
Infantry squad w/ flamer
2 vanilla infantry squads
HW squad w/ lascannons

Heavy Support
Manticore, vanilla
Leman Russ Demolisher, vanilla
2 squadded LRBTs w/ lascannons

Now my thoughts on getting the list back up to 2000. I see two possible paths, one involving a whole bunch more infantry and one involving some Hellhounds.

Option 1: Add
Heavy stubbers to the chimeras
Multi-melta sponsons and a dozer blade to the Demolisher
A flamer and a plasma gun to the vanilla infantry squads
A new infantry platoon:
PCS w/ 4 plasma
Infantry squad w/ commissar, plasma gun, and autocannon
2 infantry squads w/ plasma gun and autocannon

Required additions: three more boxes of infantry.

Option 2: Add
Heavy stubbers to the chimeras
Multi-melta sponsons and a dozer blade to the Demolisher
Plasma guns to the vanilla infantry squads
New units:
2 Hellhounds, vanilla
1 Devil Dog w/ hull-mounted multi-melta

Required additions: three Hellhound boxes.

I think the latter sounds like more fun. Any recommendations?


   
 
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