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A local Journeyman League is starting up, and I've decided to use this as an opportunity to learn Cygnar's very own Iron Horseman, Captain Jeremiah Kraye. However, I have a few problems, and I've decided to come here for you guy's help.

I have a 15 point and a 35 point list, but not a 25 pointer.

Thus:
Kraye +6
- Hunter X 2 -12
- Ironclad -7
- Squire -2
15 pts.

and

Kraye +6
- Hunter X 2 -12
- Ironclad -7
- Cyclone -9
- Minuteman -5
- Squire -2
Black 13th -4
Arlan Strangewayes -2
35 pts.

How should I build on the first to get to the second? And what should I add to the second when the 50 point mark inevitably rolls around?

Resources (unlisted):
Magnitized heavy kit (listed as Cyclone)
Stormclad
Charger
Lancer
10 X Long Gunners
10 X Nyss Hunters
Sam MacHorne and 5 X Devil Dogs
6 X Stormblades + UA
Jonas Murdoch

I don't have a huge budget, so I druther not pay for a full-on brand-spanking new heavy or unit, though a merc like Reinholdt or Rhupert might be possible.

Also, since the first week is Mangled Metal, I was planning to just leave the Squire out and play two points down, with an eye to add it in later. Is this that bad an idea?

Minuteman isn't released. Are you proxying?

...Yeah. Unless it comes out in the next month or so. If the guys at the shop won't let me... well, I'll think of something.

Your 15 isn't bad but the squire will have a hard time keeping up with Kraye if you plan on him being mobile.

The main issue wiith the 35 point list is that it lacks infantry. Sure the Cyclone + Mage Storm can put up some infantry denial but you can't cover enough area. You need a unit to deal with other units.

I thought the Minuteman might help with that, but I see your point. Couldn't a Kraye and a Cyclone under Guided Fire, the Minuteman abusing its flak field and jetpack, and the B13th collectively mulch a significant quantity of infantry between the four of them? (Pure TheoryMachine)

And the Squire doesn't do badly as long as it runs every turn. And why WOULDN'T you run it every turn anyway? It's not like it's affected in any way by it.

Is your local allowing alternate battlegroups?
Otherwise you have to have pSTRYKER+ Ironclad+Lancer+Charger in 4 out of 6 weeks, and even when you swap caster, you still need all the jacks in the list.

He is. He has said that we are free to put together whatever 15 pt. Mangled Metal list we like, so long as we don't swap them out... I THINK. I have a friend who studied the rules confidently using Asphyxius, after all.

Only brought it up because the battlebox aspect of the Journeyman league was a key part of the format.
Ours at least allowed giving the jacks to a marshal or Jr to lighten the warcaster's load.
But we still had to have all the jacks.

I would add rangers to the list as they would help with shooting accuracy and give you a advance deploy unit to harass the enemy.

More information:

It appears this is more of a "Slo-grow" league than a Journeyman one, and we are, instead of bringing a Battle Box, expected to play 15 pts. Mangled Metal for the first week.

I think I'm comfortable taking Kraye, and Ironclad, and two Hunters for the first week, playing two points under. Objections?

Also, still not sure how to make the jump from 15 pts. to 25. I've thought about bringing a full unit of Nyss w/ Murdoch and buying Alain Runewood for the buffs, but what does the board think? Is there a better 3 pt. deal, or 2 and 1 pt. deal, for the Archers?

Kraye doesn't really do anything to help the Nyss so Murdock won't do much aside from Runewood. I think you can spend your points better elsewhere for that. You can get pathfinder from the Piper and the rest of what Runewood does really doesn't help the Nyss.

I had found that Assault and his Go To Ground mini-feat were pretty good on them, especially if their caster can't buff them.

The nyss have pathfinder already, though I suppose the Piper's other songs might be a good idea. Spend the last point on Rhineholdt? Or, just spend the last three points on Stormsmiths, for picking off solos and improving Kraye's 'jack superiority EVEN MORE?

Huh... this is hard.

I'm a fan of stormsmiths. They are good at picking off solos and if your opponent is playing WM, then they are great at shutting down jacks. I usually take one if I don't need Reinholdt or have a point to spend.

Okay, some clarification:

First week's just 15 pt. Mangled Metal, and you are allowed to add more as you go, increasing week by week to 15, then 25, then 35, etc. Not sure why they CALLED it a Journeyman League when it's clearly more of a Slow-Grow league, but there you go.

Anyway, here's the plan, subject to change:

15 pts. Mangled Metal:
Kraye (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Hunter (6)
-Hunter (6)

15 pts.:
Kraye (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Hunter (6)
-Hunter (6)
- Squire (2)


25 pts.:
Kraye (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Hunter (6)
-Hunter (6)
-Squire (2)
-Cyclone (9)

35 pts.:
Kraye (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Hunter (6)
-Hunter (6)
-Squire (2)
-Minuteman (5) (Proxied, if they let me)
-Cyclone (9)
Black 13th (4)
Arlan Strangewayes (2)

50 pts.:

Kraye (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Hunter (6)
-Hunter (6)
-Squire (2)
-Minuteman (5) (Proxied, if they let me)
-Cyclone (9)
Nyss Hunters (10)
Aiyanna and Holt (4)
Black 13th (4)
Arlan Strangewayes (2)
Rineholdt (1)

Or:

Kraye (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Hunter (6)
-Hunter (6)
-Squire (2)
-Minuteman (5) (Proxied, if they let me)
-Cyclone (9)
Nyss Hunters (10)
Black 13th (4)
Arlan Strangewayes (2)
Rineholdt (1)
Rhupert Carvolo (2)
Harlan Versh (2)

Or,


Kraye (+6)
-Ironclad (7)
-Hunter (6)
-Hunter (6)
-Squire (2)
-Minuteman (5) (Proxied, if they let me)
-Cyclone (9)
Nyss Hunters (10)
Black 13th (4)
Arlan Strangewayes (2)
Rhupert Carvolo/Harlan Versh (2)
Stormsmith (1)
Stormsmith (1)
Stormsmith (1)

What's the consensus? Note that I do not own and have never played or only have limited experience proxying:
Minuteman (Duh.)
Rhupert Carvolo
Harlan Versh
Rineholt
Aiyanna and Holt
Stormsmith

Still to many jacks. Kraye doesn't have enough focus too run that many jacks. He makes them better but not good enough to run 5.

You will really want a 2nd unit of infantry, and you need one at 35 (its really not an option imo too be competitive in scenarios).

He DOESN'T run a lot of 'jacks well? I thought he, Darius, and eNemo were our 'jack casters...

And, besides, in this list, he doesn't really NEED to spend more than one focus a light, since popping Guided Fire is like spending between seven and eleven focus right there. And Arlan can always camp next to a Hunter and reduce THAT even further.

He needs help though with running things like the Stormclad with Blades to help take his focus pressure off. Being a 'jack bullet caster doesn't mean he's a 'jack caster. He wants things like the Stormclad (reach), Hammersmith (chain attack), and the Cent (reach + shield), not Ironclads for the cav charge and then the followup on the caster behind it.

Guided fire only works on ranged attack rolls so you're not getting that much benefit there.

In that mangled metal 15, I would really swap the ironclad for a stormclad if you have the model. The points are there and it has better POW, ARM, and a ranged weapon.

I've been toying with Kraye these last couple weeks and ran dual stormclad, ol Rowdy, hunter, B13, GMCA, and hated it. Well I didn't hate it. I really need stormblades in it (don't have them) or some kind of infantry to tar pit with. Rowdy was great, especially with full throttle on him. Light cav on the Hunter was wonderful as it allowed me to dance in the woods with pathfinder, though it did hurt as you always want to boost that damage and it is a focus drain.

Not sure if this should go in Battle Reports or not, but here I go:


League started today, and I played two games. Brought the Mangled Metal list above.

First was against Gorten in the Searforge commission, with a bunch of Gunners, a Driller, and a Basher. I made a bunch of stupid early mistakes that put me in a poor position, then lost an arm on a Hunter to the Gunners. I knocked down a bunch of 'jacks with the Ironclad's Quake, but Gorten ran up, feated, and moved him up the board where a Driller with Strength of Granite totaled it in two hits.

Expecting to lose, but determined to go out fighting, I, half jokingly, loaded my Hunters up with focus and popped my feat. Together, they managed to cut Gorten to bits. It was a completely unexpected win, and also hilariously awesome. However, it was a result of a mistake on HIS part, as he moved Gorten up in the wrong place when he reeled in the Ironclad, and only got killed as a result. It must also be said that both of us were brand new with our casters, and that he in particular was brand new with his WHOLE ARMY, so doing as well as he did was probably more impressive than my bizarre win.

Second match was against a veteran Cygnar player who also does Retribution, and he'd taken Adeptis Rahn, the myrm with a RoF 3 handcannon and the Phoenix. He played well, but I was rolling INCREDIBLY well on my armor piercing shots with the Hunters, and managed to scrap the Phoenix on turn 2. He also failed to Force Hammer one Hunter with his arc node because he didn't think the Hunter had cover (and I hope it did, because I don't want to win just from that.) Then, he moved Rahn too far up, and, because I could tell he wasn't having any fun anymore, said "screw it," popped my feat and cast Easy Rider so my Full-Tilted Ironclad could run over a few walls, and beat him to death with two Quake Hammer blows.

I'm glad your enjoying him. Kraye is solid at 15 points as its hard to be jack bullets early. I want too see if your anti-infantry jacks will do better than just having regular infantry.