Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This list is meant to be semicompetitive, but it's main appeal is it has my favorite models! I sort of have my heart set on the razorwing pair but everything else is up for review...thanks in advance!

HQ
Archon - huskblade, soul trap, drugs, shadowfield, nade launchers
With 4 incubi
Venom with extra S cannon

Succubus with agonizer
With 9 wyches hydra guantlets and haywire nadea
Raider with flickerfields

Elite
3 trueborn with blasters
Venom with extra S cannon

3 trueborn with blasters
Venom with extra S cannon

Troops
10 kabalite warriors blaster S cannon
Raider with flickerfield

Heavy support
Ravager with flickerfield
Razorwing with flickerfield
Razorwing with flickerfield

The list is meant to have a healthy balance between assault and shooty units as well as being able to deal with both tanks and enemy infantry (16 darklight weapons and 7 S cannons as well as 8 large blasts)

Razorwings really aren't all that great, I know you're set on them but two ravagers with FF are better. This list is certainly semi-competitive but not great. Cheers!

ArchonCorey wrote:
This list is meant to be semicompetitive, but it's main appeal is it has my favorite models! I sort of have my heart set on the razorwing pair but everything else is up for review...thanks in advance!

For a single razoring to be effective you need pretty much everything else to be AT. Even then just one. They are great at kiling infantry, but ravagers do better killing tanks. If you want to use them I would conisder calling it a bomber and leaving the missles off and using it as lascannons with lance.

ArchonCorey wrote:
HQ
Archon - huskblade, soul trap, drugs, shadowfield, nade launchers

Honestly I like the agonisers better than the huskblade/soultrap combo as its cheaper, but both have their pros and cons.

ArchonCorey wrote:
With 4 incubi
Venom with extra S cannon

This is good.

ArchonCorey wrote:
Succubus with agonizer

A haemoncluous with a liquifier goes farther IMO as the succubus is just too expensive.

ArchonCorey wrote:
With 9 wyches hydra guantlets and haywire nadea
Raider with flickerfields

Raider is good. I would swap the hydra gauntlets for a razorflail but that's just me. You do need a hekatrix with an agoniser though.

ArchonCorey wrote:
Elite
3 trueborn with blasters
Venom with extra S cannon

3 trueborn with blasters
Venom with extra S cannon

Both are good.

ArchonCorey wrote:
Troops
10 kabalite warriors blaster S cannon
Raider with flickerfield

These guys have mixed goals, either anti-infantry or anti tank. You will rarely shoot both at one squad. Either the blaster at a tank and no SC or waste an AT gun at infantry. Go with 5 guys w/blaster and put them in a venom w/2 SC. This lets you shoot the blaster at a tank and the venom at infantry. Try to get another squad of them as well.

ArchonCorey wrote:
Heavy support
Ravager with flickerfield

Good.

ArchonCorey wrote:
Razorwing with flickerfield
Razorwing with flickerfield

I've already kind of explained why I'm meh on these. If it is the model use them as bombers to get some decent (if overcosted) AT on the field.

ArchonCorey wrote:
The list is meant to have a healthy balance between assault and shooty units as well as being able to deal with both tanks and enemy infantry (16 darklight weapons and 7 S cannons as well as 8 large blasts)

Actually you do neither well. Not trying to be mean just honest. 16 darklight shots is not that great. It takes 13 to destroy one armor 12+ vehicle, and that's just one. 7 SC won't do much against marines either. The blasts might but only if your opponent is bunched up.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment...I will definitey be taking your suggestions into consideration. It can be tough to make a list that both plays well and isn't completely cookie cutter.

Just an extra thought. If you need points you can drop the venom on the two trueborn squad and give them dark lances...yeah you loose an AT gun per squad but you save alot of points and can start aiming at tanks turn one instead of 2 as would normally be the case. You can also set them up in a building or other similar piece of terrain where they will be much harder to kill.

Doesn't appear to be enough troops here. You've got Wyches which will be in combat so they won't be claiming objectives and then Warriors which are mixed roles. I'd get some more troops in and reduce down on the heavy support to pay for it.

So I revamped my list, taking yall's advice...it's at exactly 1500 (I think haha) does it look more playable? I appreciate the help as I don't want to go out and buy models I won't use.

HQ
Archon - huskblade, soultrap, drugs, shadowfield, made launchers
4 incubi
Venom with 2 S cannons

Haemonculus - liquifier gun

Elite
3 trueborn - 2 darklances
4 trueborn - 4 blasters
Venom with 2 S cannons

Troops
9 wyches - haywire nades, H gauntlets, hekatrix with agoniser
Raider - FF and shockprow
5 warriors - blaster
Venom with 2 S cannons
5 warriors - blaster
Venom with 2 S cannons

Heavy support
Ravager - FF
Ravager - FF
Razorwing - FF

Any critisism is appreciated

Ok this looks better. Interesting move with the shock prow on that raider, and I will assume that is supposed to be nade launchers not made and that that is the phantasm grenade launcher you are talking about.
Honestly I'm liking it, I'm just worried about the number of troops, although short of droping the archon and incubi I don't know where else to get the points. If you do go that route go with more warriors.

ArchonCorey wrote:Archon - huskblade, soultrap, drugs, shadowfield, made launchers
4 incubi
Venom with 2 S cannons

This is bankable.

ArchonCorey wrote:Haemonculus - liquifier gun

Fine.

ArchonCorey wrote:Elite
3 trueborn - 2 darklances
4 trueborn - 4 blasters
Venom with 2 S cannons

I considered the 2 squads of 3 in Venoms w. Blasters superior, but this isn't bad.

ArchonCorey wrote:Troops
9 wyches - haywire nades, H gauntlets, hekatrix with agoniser
Raider - FF and shockprow
5 warriors - blaster
Venom with 2 S cannons
5 warriors - blaster
Venom with 2 S cannons

All of these individual builds are fine.

ArchonCorey wrote:Heavy support
Ravager - FF
Ravager - FF
Razorwing - FF

Fine.

Fascinatingly, in a certain way, I actually thought your first list had a superior core concept. Still, I think you need to get down to the core issue of both lists. None of your individual unit designs have *any* real issues with them in either list. The real question is - 'how well do these lists function as a whole'. Let's take this list I've just looked at here and break it down in a way I like to break things down;

Hi, we're here to kill infantry
Archon
Incubi
Razorwing
Haemonculus
Wyches
Venom
Venom
Venom

Yo, we kill the mech!
Ravager
Ravager
Warriors (limited)
Warriors (limited)
Lance Trueborn
Blaster Trueborn
Wych Raider (unlikely to shoot first round 50% of the time)
Wyches (maybe)

When I look at your list I see a list that is spending a *lot* of its points on things that kill infantry, and is sort of eking out weakly its anti-mech prowess. Let's be frank, the Warriors and the Wyches that are on the anti-mech list are both as good/better at hurting infantry - of the 17 Lances/Blasters in your army 2 of them are on the Razorwing which will silly to shoot at mech on turn 1, another 3 are not too likely to get off a good shot on Turn 1, and 12 of them are locked up in 4 platforms - meaning that's about 3 actual mech units you can really donk on Turn 1, and only 4 targets an opponent really has to worry about if he wants to gut your anti-mech shooting.

Let me assure you - an enemy with half a brain and a semi-decent net list that he vaguely understands how to use ought to be able to manage killing 4 DE targets.

If I *had* to call out a weakness in the list - it would be the point sink that is the Incubi+Archon. For what you're paying for that squad I question how much value you'll get out of them. I would tend to want to sack them and work back towards 3 Trueborn w. Blasters in Venom/Raiders which will amp up your anti-mech threat. I would also personally tend to steer towards Dissies on the Razorwing, but that does depend on how many Venoms you're slapping into the list.

My thoughts,
Thor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nythryl wrote:Razorwings really aren't all that great, I know you're set on them but two ravagers with FF are better. This list is certainly semi-competitive but not great. Cheers!

Razorwings aren't good and Ravagers are 'better'?

That's like saying Lascannons are better than Heavy Flamers - the two items in question basically have two separate goals. The Razorwing kills infantry, and the Ravager kills mech, a direct comparison is...iffy in my mind.

mercer wrote:Doesn't appear to be enough troops here.

Brilliance is being spoken here.

Thanks for the comments! I'd like to be able to use the archon but I'm considering dropping the incubi...would this be viable or would he be too exposed? (sorry about the typos...I'm on my phone at work )

An Archon without an escort squad is a sad Archon. To illustrate this, consider that a single dual-SC venom has a ~50.4% chance of removing your Archon's shadowfield -- nevermind the field of dice that IG's lascannons or Ork shootas can put out. And once that's done, he's nothing but a very expensive blood spatter...