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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 03:01:36
Subject: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Ok, Tau Crisis suits are allowed to have up to three weapon/support slots right? Now, some people choose to use up two weapon slots on two separate weapons (eg. burst cannon & plasma rifle) with multi-trackers to fire both weapons, whilst the codex implies that if you choose to use up two weapon slots on the same kind of weapon (eg. 2 burst cannons) they count as one twin-linked weapon, albeit at a cheaper price than buying the 2 burst cannons separately. Now, my question is: can Crisis suits use up two slots and buy two identical weapons but count them as separate (eg. 2 separate burst cannons = 6 shots w/ multi-tracker vs. 1 twin-linked cannon = 3 shots with re-rolls)? Every sample Tau army list that I've seen doesn't seem to feature this combination of weapons...it's either two different weapons or a twin-linked identical pair. Amongst my gaming group we've always had Tau players use Crisis suits armed with two weapons not twin-linked. It seems fair as buying the two weapons separately does cost more than getting the twin-linked version...double the amount of shots should be more costly than just re-rolling after all. The new Tau Empire codex doesn't seem to make this little issue any clearer, so I thought I'll ask the community what they think of this suit config. Many Eldar players in my group have often been on the receiving end of my missile-suits-of-doom; 3 suits all armed with two missile pods & multi-trackers (12 Str7 AP4 shots coming your way...bye bye aspects & poncy eldar vehicles!). With no precedent to draw upon, they have become most vocal about how legal this setup is! Especially with the new Targeting Array support system, I don't blame them!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 03:12:44
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Each weapon takes up a slot. If you buy 2 plasma's then they are twin linked. They however still take up 2 slots.
Now you have to have 3 slots. You can't just buy the 2 plasma's and that it.
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I know the rules. Do you? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 03:25:05
Subject: RE:Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Dakka Veteran
Lexington, KY
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I don't have the new Tau codex, but it's not legal in the old/current one. Read the rules: If you buy two weapons, they fire as one twin-linked one. You can't pay for them separately: the rules list different point costs for single or twin-linked, and you can't fire them as two separate guns because the rules pretty clearly state that if you have two of anything, it fires as one that is twin-linked.
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Stop trolling us so Lowinor and I can go back to beating each other's faces in. -pretre |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 03:25:21
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Master of the Hunt
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zIP, So what exactly does the Codex say regarding the two weapons becoming TL? Give us a quote. If its like the similar 'Nid rule then you do not get a choice.
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"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the seed of Arabica that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 03:29:53
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I don't have my Codex here but if you buy two of the same kind of weapon you have to twin link it. There is a single cost and a twin linked cost. You can't get around that.
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I know the rules. Do you? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 07:31:52
Subject: RE:Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Fresh-Faced New User
Pomona, CA
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"It is possible to mount the same weapon system (not if its a flamer though) to two hard points instead of one. The two weapons will then fire like a single twin-linked weapon." -From the Tau codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 11:41:53
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Quote from pg.25 of Tau Empire codex: "Twin-linked battlesuit weapons systems: Where a weapon system is given two points values, the first is the price for the normal, single-mounted version, and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type). A single-mounted weapon counts as a single battlesuit weapon system, and a twin-linked weapon counts as two. No model may carry three of the same weapons system."
Ok, they way I interpret the line "the first is the price for the normal, single-mounted version" means just that, the cost of the weapon if it is SINGLE mounted.
The line "...and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type)" is the cost of making the weapon twin-linked, caveat being it takes up two weapon slots.
However, what's stopping me from paying the first cost twice to get two single mounted versions of that weapon? I can pay the first cost and get a single-mounted plasma rifle and then pay the single cost for the burst cannon and have two weapons...why not apply the same logic and pay for the plasma twice and get two single-mounted plasmas?
blue loki suggested looking the 'Nid codex to set a precedent. Here's the line from pg.30 on Tyranids carrying the same weapon twice: "A Tyranid that carries two of the same ranged weapon symbiote counts them as twin-linked"
Now, this line is explicit in saying that if you have two of the same, they are twin-linked; there is no other choice. However, the Tau codex implies a choice; pay the first value for the single mounted version (paying the cost twice if you want the weapon again single mounted) or pay the second value for a cheaper twin-linked version.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 11:42:44
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Fresh-Faced New User
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EDIT: Gah, sorry, double post...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 12:08:03
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Fireknife Shas'el
A bizarre array of focusing mirrors and lenses turning my phrases into even more accurate clones of
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Dude, Dunakhu already answered the question. The new codex might change things but for the purposes of using the old codex...you've been cheating. No precedent needed. In fact, the old Tau codex would be the precedent for Nids. As for the new codex, Yakface told me to wait until more peoplehad access to it and could actually form a coherent discussion.
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WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS
2009, Year of the Dog
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/02 12:08:20
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Dakka Veteran
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Well, I don't believe it would be legal to have the same weapon system filling multiple hard points unless you twin-link them but then again this is GW were talking about and we all know how reliable and logical they are. . .
(Just in case you missed it that was heavy on the sarcasm. . . )
(oh and a quick little answer for you would be something you can extrapolate from every other codex,
"You can't purchase the same wargear multiple times for the same model. . . " (Usually right above the wargear section in italics. . . )
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/03 05:36:47
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Dakka Veteran
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The line of ""It is possible to mount the same weapon system (not if its a flamer though) to two hard points instead of one. The two weapons will then fire like a single twin-linked weapon."" really says it all.
If you choose to mount the weapon system to two separate hard points (no matter what the reason) it then becomes twinlinked. You then pay the Twinlinked point cost.
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Can you D.I.G. it? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/03/04 00:12:07
Subject: RE: Question about Crisis suit weapon configs
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Fresh-Faced New User
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@ stonefox & DaIronGob: Ok, I guess under the old codex rules you have a pretty strong argument against using two identical single-mounted weapons. Unfortunately, I've given away my old Tau codex and can't attempt to find any hard quotes which might suggest using the hard points on identical weapons, but amongst my group we play a lot using logic as opposed to hard rules-lawyering. Why can a suit with multi-tracker and two different guns fire both but the same suit with two identical guns decide to fire half the shots it should be allowed? Plus, model-wise I liked theming each of my suits to carry only one type of weapon...they look more symmetrical that way!
However, the quote I gave in my previous post from pg.25 of the Tau Empire codex, I can assure you, is as verbatim as it gets. And I again I say, it implies a choice between single-mounting and twin-linking the weapons, based on which points cost you choose to pay. As it stands, the new Tau Empire codex SHOULD be the definitive codex for Tau armies in use. I would appreciate any input from people who own the new codex.
@citadel97501: In the Tau Empire codex, Tau battlesuit weaponry comes under a 'Weapons' category, as opposed to the Battlesuit Wargear category. This has been the case for many codices even before 4th edition (in that 'Weapons' lists were separate to the restrictions for 'Wargear' lists). That's why you can choose to arm your Marine characters with 2 lightning claws, or give your Guard officer two close combat weapons and still spend 100 pts on Honorificas, master-crafting etc.
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