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lord
daemon weapon
MoK
Wings
Combi melta
170

Terminators x 3
3 x combimeltas
105

8 x Bezerkers
Champ, PF
198

LR
DP
240

8 Bezerkers
Champ, PF, Icon
203

9 x Summoned daemons
126

9 x Summoned Daemons
126


Raptors x 7 -
Champ with LCs
2 x Melta
IoS
220

Raptors x 5
2 x Melta
IoCG
130

Raptors x 8
IoK
Champ with LCs
2 x Flamer
250

LR
DP
240

1998

So, I should point out I know this isn't especially balanced- too few reliable objective grabbers (backfield anyway) and an over reliance on the LRs to survive long enough to shield the raptors as they move upfield. However... I reckon it'd be fun to play, and I happen to quite like raptors (thank you blood reaver and ADB) so..thoughts on improving this particular idea, or will it fall on its face entirely?
Also, I'm not a tournament player, I just like to hold my own in your average pick up games.

I'm no expert, but I would say to drop a few squads of Raptors and take more troops! Troops choices are, in my opinion, where CSM have it pretty good in comparison to some other armies. Get some T5 in there!

Also, for the prices of some of the squads in your list you seem to lack firepower. Granted, you do have 4 twin-linked lascannons firing away, but the Land Raiders draw a significant amount of fire and will most likely get merked as soon as possible. Why take two squads of summoned daemons when you could take an Obliterator cult instead?

Just some things to think about. Good luck!

Definately drop the Lesser Daemons, they aren't very good, and as Hrothgar said, I'd probably take some more firepower instead. Either a Defiler, a Vindicator or the affore mentioned Obliterators.

Also, you are going to want all of your troops in a transport of some sort. With CSM troops being so expensive pointswise, you don't want them dying on you, and so you are going to want all of the protection that you can get.

Hope this Helps

Fair points gents, I went for the daemons because it meant I wouldn't need transports for them. That and the whole army is very much in the opponents face rather than sitting in rhinos waiting to be popped open. Lastly cos I think they're cool.. But hey, that's a minority view.

As for oblits, I agree that they could have a place in this list, I just have an irrational aversion to them for some reason, something to do with the model and their ubiquity I suspect. I'll have a think and see if I can swap something out for a pair.

As for changing the raptors for more trips, well yes, cult troops are better in a lot of ways, but I was really trying to see if I could build a list around them, so I'll cling on to them for now.

Thanks for all your advice so far- keep em coming!

I have used small raptor units like this before with GREAT success, don't let the paper theorists change your mind when they have no experience with the army.... Also the lessor demons are actually amazing, they are off chart, warp in without deviating, can assault, AND are scoring! Whoever said you lack scoring troops obviously doesnt know this...

I think this is a refreshing list that has a lot of potential, I hate when people just re-post the same lists, then tell you this is what you need to bring, especially when you state you are not competing...

red i think he may have known they were scoring but considers only four units, two of them as fragile as the demons, not enough for a 2k game. I'd like to see either 4 3+ units or three and two demons.

im digging the flying lord though, i converted one up with carioin wings and he was a beast people either thought he was way scarier than he was, or ignored him and got eaten haha. either way worked to my advantage. buuuut i dont think khorn is the way to go, although the 2/3 times he doesnt roll a one hell be awesome, its the 1/3 that will kill you

maybe only run two squads of raptors and fit in a 5 man melta nurgle squad? gives you some resiliance and another vehicle, although than that gives them a target for their autocannons. hmm unless you can fit two whole squads behind one raider they wont all be able to hide. thats the problem i see with it. drop a raptor squad for a lash DP? youd have to squeek some points out, but not too many.

Yeah that bloodfeeder is a risk, but I'm willing to take it for the times it works. The winged prince is an interesting idea, being one of the few non mech units that can keep up, but given the absence of other MC sized models I feel he may suffer in isolation, and I'm not sure how much I'd have to change to make it work- still worth considering though.

Thanks again for your input so far, it's nice not to have advice that reads: take 5 squads of plague marines and oblit spam , even if they are strong units.

well a lash DP is 155, he can hide behind mr raider, and help your raptors charge quicker. and can always run in there too.

I think the Lesser Daemons can work in this list, with all those raptor going fowards 12" then running, you can get pretty close to the enemy and drop the LEsser Daemons down second or third turn and get straight into assault.

I like the list, its different. I like the idea of Raptors but haven't tried them recently.
The main problems you will face, is obviously only having 5 targets on the first couple of turns of enemy shooting. The two LRs and 3 squads of Raptors which against high fire power armies could fall down quite easily. But you already know that, so at least your not expecting this list to go out and win easily.

Maybe drop the Lord for Kharn, 5 pints less and probably more killy. And i don't really think the Raptors need a character to go with them.

As a non-tourney list, its absolutely fine. Its not going to win loads of games, but its going to be pretty fun to use, and if all goes to plan should do pretty good.

A DP may not attract as much attention as you think as you have two LR on the table.

I've used a Khorn Prince in friendly games before and they are very devestating if left to roam, espically if you can get the zerkers and the DP in on the same fight. Most other units will go splat.

Yes you don't have the usefulness of lash, yes you don't have the extra toughness and warptime from a nurgle Prince but i'm guessing you are going for a Khorn theme here!

I'll be interested to know how the Raptors work out for you as a guy in our LFGS uses a single squad of Raptors to good effect, so multi squads should be fun! I've never thought of using them before!

But yes, as a fun list it does look good! To make it a little more interesting I'm wondering if dropping a single squad of LD's in favour for a Greater Demon and taking a naked SC for it to spawn on? Less scoring units but it gives another big scary thing for them to deal with that could soak up a lot of hurt while your LR's full of zerkers gets nearer for the charge and your raptors jump on anything else?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reanimator wrote:Yeah that bloodfeeder is a risk, but I'm willing to take it for the times it works.

Heh, just my mind set on the bloodfeeder as well! I've used it a few times and yes the fear of rolling a one is scary... but the look on your opponent's face when you roll two six's is priceless! It's certainly a weapon that really adds to the choas'y feel of a choas army! Much like chaos dreads and even plasma guns!

I once had a game against an ork army and between his random orky rules and the shock attack gun and my three dreads and demonweapons (I had a korne lord and abby in the same army!) it was a really funny game!!

Looks like a fun list, I'm a big fan of deep strike lists since it's one of the biggest advantages chaos has in my opinion. I would change some things tought, first is the bloodfeeder. Two reasons; at strenght 4 the chaos lord is to weak I think, so I would remove the mark of khorne simply for this reason. One more strenght is alot more worth then D6 attacks that might hurt and stun you.
Second reason is that you're missing a icon for your second berzerker squad. Your lord need a personal icon so you can deep strike next to either land raider. Deep striking chaos 101: Icons in every vehicle.
Another thing I would add is melta bombs to your raptor champions, just incase they have to tangle with some dreadnoughts or vehicles.

Other than that, seems like a fun list.

That greater daemon idea is intriguing- the idea of him popping up from one of the raptor squads is quite entertaining. Of course, it does mean that I'd be either stripping one down so as not to waste points, or throwing points away if I upgrade him..but worth a second thought.

Good spot on the icon for the second squad- although my initial plan is not to deepstrike the raptors or the lord, as they unfortunately don't benefit from the no scatter rule, only termies and daemons.

So, after some salient points from you lot, here's a second list:

lord
daemon weapon
Wings
Combi melta
160

8 x Bezerkers
Champ, icon
188

8 Bezerkers
Champ, PF, Icon
213

8 x Summoned daemons
112

8 x Summoned Daemons
112


Raptors x 6 -
Champ
2 x Melta
IoS
185

Raptors x 5
2 x Melta
IoCG
130

Raptors x 7
IoK
Champ w/ 2x LCs
2 x Flamer
210

LR
220

LR
220

Oblits x 2

Greater Daemon
100

2000 on the dot.

Alas, despite my jiggery-pokery I couldnt squeeze in the lash DP, but I did manage to get the Greater daemon in as a result, and the oblits to replace the termicide squad. They're almost if not more durable and have a little more variety- but they are obliterators, so see above for my apprehension.

Thoughts?

Much better, maybe drop to 2 raptor squads with maxed models, then go with a mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle? your troops be kinda squishy imo.

I cant say 2 LR will ever die, but wont accomplish much either. I think swapping to Rhino's will allow you to take a flanking unit of chosen (fun with summoned demons), maybe some plagues. More than one LR has always seemed less effective to me. Its 500 points for 3 shots a turn maybe. Compare that with your oblits, or even some cheap predators. A vindicator/defiler pie plate looks delicious on any table, and a demon possesed Vindi will soak as much fire as a LR.

I see what your saying about the shootiness of the LRs, but for my purposes they're really there to keep the bezerkers alive until they can get into assault. The assault vehicle thing and 14 all round justify them, that and they look damn cool. Added to the fact their size can provide ample cover for at least 2 of the raptor squads and I'm hard pressed to drop them.

Your point about fragile troops is also valid, but if I go groom a 5 a 6 and a7 to say, 2 squads of nine, I lose 2 special weapons, which, given the other stuff in there I really need to keep. The chosen idea is good, and fits well with strike fast, strike hard theme, I'll have s think where else I can drop points.

Thanks again for your advice