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Reworked It is based off the 17th & 2nd SS Das Reich Panzer Grendier Division I was told to take a tiger but the list doesn't allow you to.

I did not see a Air option in the list or I would take it.

PanzerKompanie

HQ
2 Stug IV and Sd Kfz recovery half track.

2 Combat Platoons
4 Stug IV

Divisional support

2 Panzergrenadier Platoon
3 squads x 2

Heavy Anti Air 2 Flak 36
1750pts

at 1850 I would add 2 10.5 cm guns

When I read the thread title, I thought this might be some sort of "third Reich in the age of black powder" mashup....

O dam I forgot to put pt value haha. Well I will try to fix that. Any suggestions for the list ?

I like it, should do well with plenty of AT, and decent amount of Infantry. I would suggest some cheap Nebs to throw smoke, maybe 2 platoons of 2squads and buy some cheap arty or mortars for holding objectives.

I have 4 Heavy Artie pieces I can use. Would that be good do you think ?
**Its suppose to be 2 Flak 88s**

FlaK36s are 88s.

A cheap 3 launcher unit of nebelwerfers is a good idea if you find yourself unable to afford anything else. Smoke is absolutely critical in this game.

Really ? Ok ill order 4 is that a good amount.

I also have the ability to do just regular Heer or Falllishicmjager in the list do you think that is a good idea or no ?

As well I have 3 Panzer I can use or 3 Panthers and 3 scout Cars. Also 3 Anti Air vehicles.

I find AA, a little hit and miss (no pun intended). Aircraft are not that effective in FOW, you can certainly live without it and just accept the odd lucky CAS. You have some Flak 36's so AA is covered, AA guns are pretty good against infantry but they will get slaughtered by anything with a AT gun, from light Recce vehicles right the way upto artillery and battle tanks.

Smoke is absolutely essential, it shields you units from enemy fire and allows them to close on Enemy positions without get slaughtered crossing open ground. 3 - 4 Nebs is good as it stops you getting a negative modifer.



Panzerwerfers are Nebs on an armoured chassis, they are expensive but you get some nice special rules, which if you pay for the extra crew (and you should) you double the number of launchers (so 4 become 8) and you can make a storm trooper move, so counter battery fire is less effective.

I love Mortars as they well represented in the rules and are extremely effective. They get an extra roll to range in ( always useful) before modifiers kick in, they can be HE or Smoke (not for all armies!) and so you get organic infantry level smoke screens. The very heavy mortars 100mm plus, can disable vehicles with ease, and remember 120mm plunging hits top armour, so even heavy Tanks can be vulnerable too.

Panthers are good, but very expensive. They are not Tigers (obviously) so they don't survive as well and they don't get a PANZER ACE SKILL. 2 Tigers for about 420 - 450 - 480 points depending on book is a good buy, Massed relatively cheap Panzer IV's can be very good too. 3 x Panthers usually tips the scales at 500points(or more), I personally like them and have 15 of them but rarely bring them out to play with unless it's a 3000point crazy game or something (they look lovely though). I also have a soft spot for Jagdpanzer IV's as they are more effective STUG's but STUGs can also be great depending on the points price.

My advice would be to collect what you want slowly, if you want become a Meta-gamer where you want a super-competitive army it's a bit silly because you need to get used to the rules, your army and your style of play. I have a methodical style, I like to stack the odds in my favour, I can come unstuck with death or glory players who make bold all or nothing assaults. It's 50% luck 25% units 25% tactics.

For the points, a 3 'Gun' team of 15cm Nebs cannot be beat. I think in Late War they are like 115 points. Why I like them:
- They are efficient at 3 stands -- just enough
- They hit at 3+ no matter when they range in
- They can smoke

Agreed DirtyJon, by the way love the website you posted up. There are literally 10's of well documented battle reports and the painting section is really nicely laid out and logical. One of the best FoW Websites I have come across.

Ok great thank you all ! I have what I want and the list I want to use is the 17th SS so I will order some mortar teams and at least 4 neb's

Pardon my Noobness Dirty, but why do they always hit on 3+ no matter what? I thought there was modifiers for ranging in and so on, like concealment, etc.

Rockets have a special rule where they don't have a penalty on their to hit roll if they range in on the second or third attempt. So you roll all attempts together like rolling for Smoke.

Then, since most rocket teams are Veteran, you'll usually be hitting on 3+ since you roll skill checks to hit once you range in.

They also get a double wide template when they have 6 guns, but no rerolling misses.

Honestly, the rules are so good for rockets, and Germans get them so cheaply and in so many lists that few people take anything but rockets. I have yet to see any German player take their normal artillery, besides myself. I'd imagine more historical minded players would.