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Alright we have had issues figuring out how this works

say 10 Biker Nobz(with powerklaws &eavy armour) & painboy assault 10 GK terminators(no upgrades)

how does this pan out.

How we understand it

GK cast hammerhand
I4 GK attacks 30 times at 4+
GK rolls 15 wounds on 3+
Orks role 10 saves at 4+
Orks roll 5 FNP at 4+
3 ork wounds.
GK rolls 3 force weapon checks each pass resulting in an instant death

I2 painboy attacks 4 times
I1 leftover orks attack with poweklaws

Is this in any way right?

first of all theyre power weapons so no fnp and they cant activate force weapons because they use hammerhand its either one or the other and if they dont use hammerhand and use the force weps then its one test on the justicars leadership

No, no part of that is right.

GK can chose to activate force weapons OR hammerhand. He rolls a check for either at the start of the assault, and then he either gets +1 str on all force weapons, OR all force weapons cause instant death.

Also, you do not get ANY SAVES OR FEEL NO PAIN against force weapons. You can take ONLY invulnerable saves.

and if the orks have no invulnerable save then theyre are no saves at all orks just take woulds

k

Um...how do the Terminators have 3 attacks a piece if they are the ones being assaulted?

CrashCanuck wrote:Um...how do the Terminators have 3 attacks a piece if they are the ones being assaulted?

It's theoretically possible that Grand Master gave them Counter Attack USR, but I obviously can't say about this specific case.

But considering the OP said no upgrades...

Mistake. Anywho one more question. Do force swords strike at i1 or i4

Regular Force Weapons strike at the initiative of the Wielder, Nemesis Force Weapons vary a little. Halberds are at Wielder Initiative +2 Hammers are at I1 and the rest IIRC are at Wielder Initiative.

Luide wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:Um...how do the Terminators have 3 attacks a piece if they are the ones being assaulted?

It's theoretically possible that Grand Master gave them Counter Attack USR, but I obviously can't say about this specific case.

But considering the OP said no upgrades...

I was thinking it was a Brotherhood Banner, but as you said, he DID say no upgrades...

Ok but you guys also called them power weapons so they ignore armour. Don't power weapons strike at i1

No, only power fists and thunder hammers strike at i1

docbrown wrote:Ok but you guys also called them power weapons so they ignore armour. Don't power weapons strike at i1

Daemonhammers (for GKs) hit at I1.

I think you need to re-read the rulebook a few times.

We have and every time it comes out different

I swore force weapons say a model with a force weapon may take any unsaved wound and .... Instant death

Horst - He rolls a check for either at the start of the assault,

Nope, reread the NFW rules. Once you cause the first unsaved wound you take the check, if you pass EVERY single wound caused by the GK that turn cause Instant Death

Nemesis Force Weapons do NOT work in the same way as normal force weapons.

Oh there's the problem. What I don't get then is how does that work. Do I roll each save individually and once do fail one all. Wounds after are instants?

Force Weapons Pg 50 in BRB

Nemesis Force Weapons Pg 54 GK Codex

Read these pages and all your questions will be solved.

docbrown wrote:Oh there's the problem. What I don't get then is how does that work. Do I roll each save individually and once do fail one all. Wounds after are instants?

Once you fail a save you roll, if you pass the test then AL wounds are ID, including that one. So if you wound at I6, ALL wounds at I6 and belw cause ID

That's a fethed up ruling. Why not just say all wounds cause Id if pass roll. Because essentially its all force weapons of the same initiative cause Id on a pass

Because it means you have to choose when your Init comes up whether to risk the psychic power or not.

I may be mistaked but I think the GK can choose to activate the force weapons after unsaved wounds.

This is of course not a viable option if you have chosen to use hammerhand unless you have a mastery level of 2 or higher.

Of which the only thing that springs to mind is a Librarian.


Nemesis Force Weapons are power weapons, each has its own bonus listed in the codex and only the demon hammers strike at I1.
Force swords and Falchions strike at normal initiative and Halberds increase the initiative.

I also think (though I'd need to check) that the brotherhood of psykers rule means you test for force weapon activation once for the whole squad.
(Can someone answer this please?)


GK cast hammerhand
I4 GK attacks 30 times at 4+
GK rolls 15 wounds on 3+
10 ork wounds.
I2 painboy attacks 4 times
I1 leftover orks attack with poweklaws

Tactically hammerhand is not always usefull as you can see.
Instead of dealing 10 wounds with hammerhand activating the force weapons would kill 10 multi wound models

All force weapons(including nemesis):
First Hit, Then Wound, All attacks are Power weapons, if enemy suffers an unsaved wound(do to failing an invulnerable save, or having none) you can then take a psychic test to activate the force weapon for ID

Where NFW differ: Instead of just the 1 attack that has an unsaved wound causing ID; all attacks, from that one on, cause ID.

Examples:

Force Weapon 1: A SM Librarianis attacking a Chaos Lord in CC; At I step 4 he swings 3 times; lets assume he gets lucky and hits with all 3. He then goes to wound, and again gets lucky; 2 wounds. The lord passes his first invulnerable save, but fails his second. The Librarian declares he is activating the Force weapon(still has a power left to use this turn), passes and causes ID on the Lord.

Force weapon 2: A SM Librarianis attacking a unit of 5 nobs in CC; At I step 4 he swings 3 times; lets assume he gets lucky and hits with all 3. He then goes to wound, and again gets lucky; 2 wounds. The Nobz have no invulnerable save. The Librarian declares he is activating the Force weapon(still has a power left to use this turn), passes and causes ID on 1 Nob(the other only takes 1 wound).

Nemesis weapons 1: A 5-man grey knight Strike-squad is in cc with a unit of 5 Diversified Nobz(these ones have Cybork Bodies); they have 1 Halberd, 3 Falchions, and a hammer; at I6 the Halberd Swings, it hits, it wounds, the Nob Fails his save; the unit activates their Force weapons; this attack, and all other NFW attacks(the falchions and the Hammer) now cause ID.

Nemesis weapons 2: A 5-man grey knight Strike-squad is in cc with a unit of 5 Diversified Nobz(these ones have Cybork Bodies); they have 1 Halberd, 3 Falchions, and a hammer; at I6 the Halberd Swings, it hits, it wounds, the Nob Passes his save. the Falchions then get to make their 6 swings; 4 hit, 3 wound, the first is saved, the second is failed; the unit activates their Force weapons; this attack, and all other NFW attacks(the second wound here, which was also failed and the Hammer) now cause ID.

Nemesis weapons 3: A 5-man grey knight Strike-squad is in cc with a unit of 5 Diversified Nobz(these ones have Cybork Bodies); they have 1 Halberd, 3 Falchions, and a hammer; at I6 the Halberd Swings, it hits, it wounds, the Nob Fails his save; the unit does not choose to activate their Force weapons; They may not choose to activate their force weapons on any subsequent attacks this assault phase

i got the book in front of me, one Ld test to pass the force weapons, if no Inv saves and you take 15 wounds then 15 models die regardless of how many wounds they have. GK can only pass one psychic test a turn unless the unit has mastery level 2. A power fist or thunder/daemon hammer hits at I1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
o...Kommissar got the answer before me


Automatically Appended Next Post:
one last thing to add, a term squad gets a profile 3A if they have a banner with them, it adds +1A per. so you would get 4A on an assault

So, if you do not activate NFW insta-kill at the first possible moment you cannot use it at all in that assault phase (for the unit)?

Correct. You cannot choose to wait and see.

Cool, I was under the impression that you could use it after any wound, however any wound suffered in the phase prior to that would not be affected, so using Kommissar Kel's example: Halberd attacks gets 1 wound, does not ID, no roll made to make ID. Falchions attack and wound, roll made falchions ID and hammer (which hasn't gone yet) would also ID. Good to know for against my GK buddy...

Happyjew wrote:Cool, I was under the impression that you could use it after any wound, however any wound suffered in the phase prior to that would not be affected, so using Kommissar Kel's example: Halberd attacks gets 1 wound, does not ID, no roll made to make ID. Falchions attack and wound, roll made falchions ID and hammer (which hasn't gone yet) would also ID. Good to know for against my GK buddy...

I am glad I read this a second time; at first impression I thought you were trying to use my example to show allowance for the falchions after the halberd caused an unsaved wound and did not activate.


If you need Page and text reference for your GK buddy(and I am sure you will instead of just: "well Kommissar Kel on dakka says so.."): GK Codex Page 54, in the box-out for NFWS, Second to last and final sentences; pay particular attention to the timing on the second to last sentence: "If a unit is striking at different Initiative orders, take the Psychic test to 'activate' the force weapons immediately after the first unsaved wounds are caused."