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So my wife wants to put together a BA army. I haven't bought any of the figures yet since we've been bouncing around ideas about what units she wants and how effective the army should be. Here is what we have and I'd appreciate any solid advice. The only thing she doesn't want to hear is "mech up", apparently her DE venom/raider spam is putting her off. Thanks in advance!

HQ:

Libby w/ Jump pack

Elite:

Sang Priest x2 w/ Jump Packs

Furioso Dread Libby w/ extra armour

Troops:

Assault squad w/ 2x Melta and PF

Assault squad w/ 2x Melta and PF

Assault squad w/ 2x Melta and PF

Assault squad w/ 2x Melta and PF

Fast Attack:

Baal Pred w/ HB Sponsons

Baal Pred w/ HB Sponsons

Heavy:

Predator w/ Autcannon/Las Sponsons

Predator w/ Autcannon/Las Sponsons

Total: 1965

get a stormraven and a vindicator it will work much better

Doen't listen to Yriel Exarch, The HS is good as it is, but 1 vindicator is a must. I do like Death Company though


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Possibly get stormraven for ded trans, good then for dropping off terminators then shooting down anythingyou doen't like the look of

The usual advice is either go men or mech but not both. The lists I have seen work which combine the two rely on tanks giving supporting fire whilst jump packers come down or sneak around whilst no one is looking.
Essentially I am saying I have no idea how your list would work but I would worry about your dreads, the Baals can be sneaky so should be ok.
Also I have no idea how to use stormravens without having them shot down, but it seems so sensible to have one to get you dreads into combat, also maybe take a librarian dread to give him wings will help with getting into combat.

Yes, you are right about priests, they are there to keep things alive and whilst staying alive themselves.
Your opponent is being too kind if you get to use templates coming from a Baal. The assault cannon with heavy bolters is nasty combo. It can take out( or threaten to take out which is more important) infantry by the bucket load, whilst secretly we all know assault cannons are amazing at antitank duties.

I agree with MFletch, but I cant talk from experience, I'm a beginner BA player myself I'm assuming your reserving everything?

I know you said no mech, but I would take at least one 5 man Assault squad with Las/ Plas razorback. I have used the Flame storm cannon with mixed results, TBH I would go Assault cannon, and Heavy bolters. As for your Devastators, you're not Space Pups, and while they are still good, you have a lot better units in that slot, for example the Rifleman dread, and Auto/ Lascannon Pread. For your Furiosos the Blood Talons are amazing, but I would try the Frag cannon in a drop pod on one of them. NOW THE ISSUE WITH YOUR PRIEST, THEY SHOULD HAVE POWER WEAPONS, CAUSE THEY ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE WITH YOUR SQUADS,SO WILL BE IN HAND TO HAND ANYWAYS. THEY MIGHT AS WELL BE USING THAT WS 5 FOR SOMETHING. On to the other problem I rarely need 2 priest let alone 3, but that's totally upto you.

If you want a look at my 1500 pt list I'm currently running I just posted it on here. It's currently 6 and 0 with 4 tables.

*Waits for someone to question your list of results if you let your priests get into base to base contact.*

If the goal is to have the most competitive list possible, you need to either mech up, or avoid vehicles completely. If your wife is cool with having a reasonably competitive, but not top-tier list, what you have is fine, except I don't like having two Dreads in pods. They come down one at a time, and that means the chance they get into CC is minimal.

I wrote a guide for new BA players in the Articles section. My record might not be as sexy as some in this thread, but I've only lost 1 game above 500 points and I believe my recommendations are solid, if geared towards winning at the cost of personalization.

One idea that comes to mind is cutting the Baals and Furiosos to take more Assault Marines and add a couple of Vanguard Veteran squads or an Honor Guard with 4 Meltaguns. For example, the vehicles cost 580 in the posted list, so you could have 2 squads 10 Assault Marines with 2 Flamers and a Lightning Claw plus an Honor Guard with 4 Meltas and 4 Flamers if you also dropped one of the Priests.

MFletch wrote:*Waits for someone to question your list of results if you let your priests get into base to base contact.*

The first game was against leafblower guard. Second was against Tau. Third was against Grey Knights. Fourth was against Venom Spam Dark Eldar. Fifth was against Chaos Deamons. The sixth was against a different Grey Knight player. I tabled the armies of 2 through 5, the mech guard player came down to victory points, I won by 565 pts, and the last game ended on the sixth turn he had 3 models left. It's also worth knowing that the mech guard player and I only made it through 4 turns when time got called.

Heading to bed so this will be short. I appreciate all of the advice given so far and so does my wife. I'll edit the list tomorrow with what she's looking at now and let you guys continue to pick it apart if you don't mind. Thanks again!

Quick question...when measuring the 6" for the Sang Priest's Blood Chalice is it measured ONLY from the Priest or from any member of the unit the priest is attached to? I only bring this up because if it's from the priest then I don't see how only bringing one would be enough for multiple squads DSing since you would have to seriously pack them in tight and pray DoA doesn't let you down.

As for the rest of the list I didn't get to go over anyone's tips with the wife yet, so I'm sorry that I haven't been able to respond to anyone's feedback yet. Thanks again and good gaming!

I would go a lib furious with fear of darkness in a drop pod. Can't assault from deep strike so might as well have a shot to have a few squads flee.

A unit needs to be within 6" of the Priest himself, or within 6" of his transport if he happens to be within one. But, keep in mind that you only need 1 model from a squad to be within 6" to give the Chalice to all members.


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Timelessfall wrote:I would go a lib furious with fear of darkness in a drop pod. Can't assault from deep strike so might as well have a shot to have a few squads flee.

This seems really, really expensive and unreliable. That's 210 points and 2 KPs, and you really can't expect the Libby survive a round of shooting. Unless you plan to stay 24" away from the enemy, in which case, why bother with the DP at all? Give the Libby Wings and he has a 18" charge range.

So after a great long debate on tactics, play style and the occassional "I want this guy and I refuse to drop him" we came up with the list currently posted at the top.

First off she dropped the Devastators (thanks Tear of Angel) and picked up two Auto/Las preds. The idea is that if she reserves everything against opponents with great long range weapons she can drive them on during turn 2/3 and lay down some long range fire support for the Assaults that will be DoAing in.

Second she dropped one of the priests (thanks Tear of Angel again) and after moving around some other things managed to add in another Assault squad. Theory is if the four groups can drop somewhat in "pairs" so the priest can share his lovin' then she can get away with just two and in return add more killin' powa!

Finally she dropped a Furioso and turned the other one into a Libby with wings (not sure on the other power yet, looking into Might of Heroes) as McFletch suggested. Figured that it can either come in from reserves and by turn 4 put down some super hurt, or if she decides to start with everything on table it can keep up with the assaults and provide some hard hits or even some cover from early shots.

Now onto more questions from us to you fine folks.

1) (This one not so much a question, but if you can tear it up and give us a reason to doubt ourselves I'll appreciate it) We're both pretty sold on flamestorm cannons for the Baals. Between 8 meltas/4 PF/4 Las/4 Autocannon and Blood Lance she's not really hurting for the extra AT power that the assault cannon could potentially add. Once transports are popped by all of the other units models will be so close together from wrecks/explodes that the flamestorm will eat most things coming out and freeing the other squads to continue hurting vehicles. If the enemy is on foot it's not hard to tank shock them into a tight group and flame on I'll agree this does leave the Baal much more vulnerable to CC attacks (but they'll be rolling 6+ to hit atleast), but no risk no reward right?

2) Should she make one or two of the assault squads into flamer/claw squads? I saw MrEconomics post about this (by the way we both appreciated your guide) and thought that she might need to do this encase she rolls into a swarm army.

3) I've been crunching some numbers and I'm not seeing any good outcomes for her against great deals of terminators. She doesn't have an overwhelming amount of AT weapons to cut them down in any great quantity and even on the assault she has to put out a LOT of attacks to get through those 2+ saves. What sort of changes would any of you advice to help with this sort of problem?

4) I saw a couple of you suggested a vindicator. As much as I love the vindy in my CSM army I'm leaning against it in this case. Due to the 40+ models that will be hugging the enemies lines one stray demolisher cannon shot can destroy an entire friendly squad with ease. I also feel that the large amount of Meltas should cover the AV13+ problem that the demolisher helps deal with. The only downside I see of her not taking it is covered in my third question...it was one of her best weapons against squads of terminators.

Once again I appreciate all of the advice and good gaming to you all!

Didn't read whole thread, so sorry for repeated advice if given. Furioso Librarians got FAQd that they cannot take wargear, so no extra armor for them. One BIG reason the are not as popular as they are.


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As for list advice, all mech or all infantry is the widely accepted consensus on the idea. If you go all mech, you have tons of armor saturation and give the enemy TOO many targets to shoot at. If you go all infantry, you have no armor and therefore force the enemy to WASTE any high str weapons they paid tons of points for on a single infantry model. Mixing the two sets you up for failure. At 2000 pts, a lot of armies will be packing some serious anti-vehicle weaponry and will waste those 4 AV13 vehicles in a hurry, before your 40 assault marines make it within melta range.

DE venom spam should be putting her off! They are the nemesis of infantry armies and will lay waste down like no tomorrow. 3+ saves and FNP can only be passed so many times.

This list could easily be simplified to making those 10 man assault squads into 5 man assault squads w/ razorbacks with (turret of choice, las/TLplas is popular) and you will save yourself 80-115 points per squad.

I appreciate the input J Mac, I didn't realize the Furioso Libby couldn't take extra armour (my BA opponents never use them, they prefer Razorback spams) so I'll need to speak with her about that tomorrow.

As for the all mech or all infantry I understand why most players take one or the other, however she won't take full mech since she already has an army that owns our local store via vehicle spam. She doesn't want a pure infantry army since I run purifiers who will destroy an infantry army hands down (plus you don't want to take a TON of cleansing flames even with armour/FNP when 3-4 squads are engaged) and my own DE army that would kite the little DoA boys around for the entire game (mmm d-cannon ravagers). This is why she wants the two (might make it three) Predators rolling into the backfield the same time the DoA happens and popping any of the vehicles that are 1) Out of range of meltas (though if you aim your Assaults correctly they should all be good unless dice gods hate you) and 2) Can potentially give the assault marines the run around.

So yes the list could be simplified to a mech list full of razorbacks or DoA, but then she'd just pick up the 6 psybacks (winning) I have for my GK army and not bother buying BA. I look at pure Mech or pure DoA as a crutch for players not willing to become better tacticians and just relying on what comes easy. Don't take that negatively, just an observation I've made throughout the years.

I do appreciate the input though and good gaming to you!

TBH, when the new codex came out I jump on the mech, but a year later and I'm finding much better results with a mix of everything.
For your Furioso Librarian I would either run him in a pod w/shield and fear of darkness or blood lance, or walking w/ wings and shield. For some reason the BA oldest psykers have yet to learn the ability to use two powers in the same turn yet, but you can you a offensive power and then shield on the oppents turn. This will also provide a cover save to any friendly units withing 6 inches including vehicles.

Baal pread has to good roles 1 it can be setup for shooting and wear units down with saturation of fire, this can help with alot of you terminator problems, it's not the total answer buy can help. The second role is to get behind enemy lines and get rid of longrange threats. Now this can be done two ways, either by outflanking or scouting up popping smoke and hope you make it through the first turn. I personnely like the flamestorm turret for how cheap it is, and run at least 1 variant of the Baal pread in every list.

The Terminator issue, as mentioned earlier the Baal can help with this, as for assault wise, your really have about 2 units that can effectively do this. 1 is your own squad of assault terminators w/ lighting claws, and a priest, the second being a cheap unit of death company, with a chaplain. If you choose to do death company I would suggest a eight to nine man squad in a rhino with one power weapon and one power fist, and ofcourse a chaplain. That comes to 350 or 370 pts. Don't forget that the chaplain make the death company reroll to hit and wound on the charge. The drawback is that the days of the chaplain getting rid of the rage rule are gone so you have to stay in the rhino until the right time.

As for your assault squads, I have seen it done both ways. With a balance between claws and fist squads, and then just fist and melta squads. I prefer a balanced approach myself, for all those greenskins out there that must be put down in honorable close combat. The drawback is all the wound allocations shananigans out there with MEQ's, means you could see all your lighting claws go on a flamer guy or equivalent. Really, as with everything mentioned the best advice would be to play test some models in units that intrest her and see what fits her play style, and how she wants her army to work on the table.

Hopefully this helps, and if you have anyother questions just ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.