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Hey guys im new to dark eldar, but have been playing warhammer for a while. heres my list and i need some opinions/advise.

HQ
Baron 105

Troops
14x Hellions, with Hellarch and agoniser = 249 (Baron will join this squad)
15x Hellions, with Hellarch and agoniser = 265
5x Warriors + Blaster, mounted in a venom with SC upgrade = 125
5x Warriors + Blaster, mounted in a venom with SC upgrade = 125
10x Wyches, 2x Hydra gauntlets, Heka with agoniser, 8 haywire grenades, mounted in a raider with a DL and FF = 236

Heavy
Ravager FF, 115
Ravager FF, 115
Razorwing FF and SC, 165

Total = 1500.

So, i know its has alot of hellions, but i thought it might be fun, while still being semi competitive. Opinions?

I'll choose to bite my tongue about Hellions, but I have a few general thoughts;

1. You have a silly amount of anti-infantry (2x Hellion squads, 2x Venoms, Wyches, Razorwing) and very little anti-mech (2 Blasters, a Raider, 2x Ravagers). Since dark lances are basically fancy missile launchers...I sorta advise that you need more anti-mech tools, and don't need to be paying so many points to anti-infantry.

2. When Wyces take Haywires it's all or none - you can't take 8 in a squad of 10.

3. That second Hellion squad really needs a PGL on the Helliarch, otherwise you can't really assault into cover and then what's the point?

My thoughts,
Thor.

Shouldn't this be in army lists?

But uh, I'll just echo what Thor has to say. General vague disdain for hellions, you need a PGL on that second squad, it's illegal not to take haywires for the entire squad, and you need more anti-tank.

Also, razorflails have been mathhammered out to be statistically better than hydra gauntlets. Your mileage may vary, but I usually take them over hydra gauntlets if I want an offensive Wyches squad. Shardnets are valuable if you're using them as a tarpit, but all the special close combat weapons are purely optional. You're not going to turn your wyches into unstoppable killing machines with them, and they can get pretty costly. Although I don't see that being a problem with this list, seeing as you're only running one squad of them. Still, you might want to consider dropping them in favor of getting that PGL for your hellions.

Thanks for the reply. Yea i have made all the wyches have nades, and got rid of one hellion, and ive got ten points to throw around probly NS for the raider or somthing..

i understand i have alot of anti infantry stuff, but it does have 9 DL (2 on the razorwing) and 2 Blasters in this list... Isnt that enough for ur average opponent? I would like to think too that i could wipe out all there infantry and leave only a little bit of mech left there while i have heaps of points left on the field for a win.

also with the PGL, it was a bit too much points for it as i usually fly around or behind the cover before making my assault,although i could probly swap some points around and add it in there.

Do you think if i changed the razorwing for a 3rd ravager that it would suffice for anti tank?

thanks

Gliaros wrote: i understand i have alot of anti infantry stuff, but it does have 9 DL (2 on the razorwing) and 2 Blasters in this list... Isnt that enough for ur average opponent?

Absolutely not.

At the same points level, I run a list with 17 darklight shots (3 blasters, 14 dark lances) and I often find myself wishing I had more. A properly meched up opponent could have as 9-12 vehicles on the field. So you're looking at 1 lance shot per vehicle. You'd better hope it hits, penetrates and does something nasty every single time.

The problem is that you need enough lance shots to actually get to the fleshy infantry. All the opponent has to do is disable 2 av 11 open topped vehicles to stop half your anti-tank. It really is too light on anti AV

I run 3 ravagers, 3 raiders, 2 blaster warrior squads a trueblaster unit @ 1500 and still find it a bit light on anti-AV at times (hello IG)

Anti-infantry you get automatically by buying almost everything else. Focus more on getting lances imo.

Ok, so if i get rid of 1 hellion, 1504-1488 and take away 1 of the wyches hydra gauntlets (and change the other one to razorflails) 1488-1478, for instead adding PGL to the other hellion squad making it 1498. Would that be a better option?

Btw thanks guy for the help. GLiaros


Also, Is the razorwing a waste of time in this list? Cheers

I'm inclined to say yes to dropping the razorwing in this list.

Much as I love the model, it's adding more anti-infantry which you have plenty of, and you're giving up anti-tank for it. You could very easily swap it out for a ravager with a flickerfield and open up some more points to play with. Might consider scaling back those hellion squads even more (although I'm hesitant to advise this, considering their inherent fragility, but they're a huge points sink at the moment) to free up room for a trueblaster squad or two.

The other changes look good though.

Absolutely not.

At the same points level, I run a list with 17 darklight shots (3 blasters, 14 dark lances) and I often find myself wishing I had more. A properly meched up opponent could have as 9-12 vehicles on the field. So you're looking at 1 lance shot per vehicle. You'd better hope it hits, penetrates and does something nasty every single time.





Yea i see what you mean by needing more anti tank... Sucks tho cause i have already bought those hellions cause i thought they look cool and they were cheap. So more....should i swap out the razorwing for a ravager, get some more gun boats with blasters? Is it viable to keep 1 hellion squad with baron in there?

Cheers

There ought to be a quote button on my posts to make you do the little box that has "Lokas Wrote:" on it. Not trying to sound like an ass here, trying to genuinely help.

And unfortunately, I need to hit the hay. It's late for me, although Thor is still around somewhere and I'm sure Dash will show up at some point. Guy can smell a Dark Eldar thread from half the world over. These two are also far far better players than I, with far more experience. Cheers, and good luck.

Lokas wrote:There ought to be a quote button on my posts to make you do the little box that has "Lokas Wrote:" on it. Not trying to sound like an ass here, trying to genuinely help.

And unfortunately, I need to hit the hay. It's late for me, although Thor is still around somewhere and I'm sure Dash will show up at some point. Guy can smell a Dark Eldar thread from half the world over. These two are also far far better players than I, with far more experience. Cheers, and good luck.

Oh ok cool, yup i think i have it sorted. Im new to forums so thanks for the help (definitly didnt think you were being a ass haha)

Ive come up with some mods that i think would be alot better imo too, by dropping 8 hellions and the razoringwing and adding in a 3rd ravager and a trueborn squad 4 with blasters in venom. Heres the list (Btw thanks again for all ur input and opinions, its extremely helpfull):

Hq
Baron = 105

Troops
10x Hellions w/Helliarch, Agoniser and PGL = 205
10x Hellions w/Helliarch, Agoniser = 185 (Baron will join this squad)
5x Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster, in a Venom w/SC = 125
5x Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster, in a Venom w/SC = 125
10x Wyches w/Hekatrix w/Agoniser, Razorflails x1, Haywire Grenades, In a Raider with DL and FF = 230

Elites
4x Kabalite Trueborn, All with Blasters, In a Venom w/SC = 173

Heavy Support
Ravager w/DL and FF = 115
Ravager w/DL and FF = 115
Ravager w/DL and FF = 115

Total = 1493.

So what do you think? It has 10 DL, and 6 Blasters. Also have the Wyches there with HWG, Do you think this is a fairly balanced/competative list? Opinions much apprietiated . Thanks again guys.

I still think that's light on anti-tank. At 1500, I run with three 3-DL Ravagers, three 4-blaster Trueborn, and three 5-man/1-blaster Warrior squads. That's 9 lances and 15 blasters. It STILL doesn't seem like enough anti-tank. AV11 and AV12 vehicles proliferate in the current metagame. Whether it's Razorbacks, Stormravens, Chimeras, or Vendettas, you're shooting at a lot of vehicles where your lance rule just simply doesn't come into play.

Remember that while you are BS4, that still means that 1/3 of your shots miss. Those 3 Ravagers you're fielding will be getting an average of 2 lances on the target each turn. Against AV12, that's 1/3 of a glance and 2/3 of a penetrate. And that's before cover saves get involved. When your opponent is fielding a pair of Manticores on the other side of the field and you want to get rid of that S10 ordnance now, you need firepower. Overwhelming firepower. And when he retaliates and pops your ravagers, you need more firepower. Redundant firepower.

You'll get enough anti-infantry from splinter-cannons. Get more lances -- you'll thank yourself.