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Had an arguement over something which I considered reasonably obvious, although it could just be he had sour grapes about me wiping the floor with him!

Orks (me) vs Dark Angels.

I charged my mob of Slugga Boyz, with PK Nob and a Warboss attached, into a combat squad (4 left), in a ruin with a heavy bolter on the 1st floor.
My units reached him comfortably, popped my Warboss on the 1st floor next to the heavy bolter (only room available on the 1st floor) and the rest of my mob on the ground floor attacking the rest of the squad.

Rolled Warboss first and he somehow failed to kill anything!
Rolled the PK Nob next and wiped 2 of the marines. My next 5 models in combat rolled and inflicted 3 unsaved wounds, at this point he argued the single model on the ground floor took all 3 wounds as my unit couldn't reach the HB on the 1st floor and that the warboss didn't count as part of the unit. (surely this doesn't matter)

I showed him the rule stating that ANY model in the unit can be a casualty, INCLUDING those not in B2B contact. Eventually after 10 minutes of argueing he "allowed me" to continue.

Can someone clear this up for me please?


EDIT: Meant to post this in YMDC! oops!

well, you read the answer in the brb, right?.

MrMerlin wrote:well, you read the answer in the brb, right?.

Well yes, but he was adamant that it didn't apply as the Warboss in B2B was an IC, but that doesn't stop him taking the model away as a casualty does it?

I was just looking for clarification, he reckoned it was different due to him being on the 1st floor.

different floors and things like that have nothing to do with wound allocaiton. You have to allocate the wounds evenly, even if the dude who dies is 20 feet away from the one who killed him

Being in combat with another "unit" (The IC) in this case, has no bearing on wound allocation does it?

(Thankyou for confirming)

First of all, you did the combat wrong. Sequence of attacks probably (since you don't state what the warboss is armed with) Warboss, boyz, Nob w/PK, ie in inititiative order.
But yes, you were correct in that the wounds can affect any model in the unit.

don_mondo wrote:First of all, you did the combat wrong. Sequence of attacks probably (since you don't state what the warboss is armed with) Warboss, boyz, Nob w/PK, ie in inititiative order.
But yes, you were correct in that the wounds can affect any model in the unit.

Very true it does read that way and I have just realised you might be right.

The order we took was:

Warboss
Marines
Nob
Boyz

It should have been Boyz THEN Nob. I didn't see it like that as I was classing them as "rolling together". Very good point. Note taken thanks.

As you were charging through a ruin, all of them strike at I1 anyways.

Jidmah wrote:As you were charging through a ruin, all of them strike at I1 anyways.

Yet another good point! So I didn't strike out of Initiative order

On a side note, I have realised just how much better a PK is than a Big Choppa!

My Warboss was rocking the Big Choppa so he could strike first in most combat, but TBH I will equip the PK wielding warboss in future!

Why didn't he do his consolidate move and bring the model from the upper level down to the combat?

Fearspect wrote:Why didn't he do his consolidate move and bring the model from the upper level down to the combat?

Because you only move models that are not in b2b. The HB guy was in B2B with the warboss. There's no reason to pile-in.

I think he meant why did the models on the upper floors not pile in to the bottom.

Because all models were in base contact. The heavy bolter and the warboss on the first floor, and the other three marines with sluggas on the bottom floor.

OK. So the gist of his argument was that because the HB was only in b2b with the warboss, the rest of the unit could not hurt it?

Only way this would make sense would be if the HB model was an IC or from a different unit, yes? Otherwise, it is just wrong.

Jidmah wrote:Because all models were in base contact. The heavy bolter and the warboss on the first floor, and the other three marines with sluggas on the bottom floor.

For us colonials, that would be the sluggas/marines on the first floor and the warboos/HB on the second floor..............................

I read this as HB is in base contact with the warboss only, and the rest of the nobz are not, as the ones without PKs have killed everything else by the time you reach I1.

As ICs are treated as separate units in assaults, and no nob is in base contact at I1, I would rule this as they can't hit him till next turn after combat is consolidated. (Orks moving up as they are not in base contact with anything)

D.Azrinae wrote:I read this as HB is in base contact with the warboss only, and the rest of the nobz are not, as the ones without PKs have killed everything else by the time you reach I1.

As ICs are treated as separate units in assaults, and no nob is in base contact at I1, I would rule this as they can't hit him till next turn after combat is consolidated. (Orks moving up as they are not in base contact with anything)

And you would be incorrect, as who can fight is determined at the beginning of the round of combat, and will not change because of casualties.

So since the PK Nobz at I1 were able to attack the unit at the beginning of the round of combat, then they get to try to kill the lone marine on the second floor.

D.Azrinae wrote:I read this as HB is in base contact with the warboss only, and the rest of the nobz are not, as the ones without PKs have killed everything else by the time you reach I1.

As ICs are treated as separate units in assaults, and no nob is in base contact at I1, I would rule this as they can't hit him till next turn after combat is consolidated. (Orks moving up as they are not in base contact with anything)

Even funnier, orks charging through terrain with will all go at i1. Unless for some god aweful reason you gave them stikkbombs

Plus the Warboss should not have charged onto the upper floor first - the closest model (which may or may not have been the Warboss) should have charged the closest enemy, which would have been someone on the ground. Then everyone charges to be in coherency with first, which may have made it impossible to get to upper floor (obviously, without knowing who was where, this is difficult to determine).

If it was possible for the marines to straddle the floor, it was almost certainly possible for the Orks to do so. Only the initial model is constrained to charging the closest model, so after that if the next model can make base contact with the guy upstairs without breaking coherency he's welcome to.

UltraPrime wrote:Plus the Warboss should not have charged onto the upper floor first - the closest model (which may or may not have been the Warboss) should have charged the closest enemy, which would have been someone on the ground. Then everyone charges to be in coherency with first, which may have made it impossible to get to upper floor (obviously, without knowing who was where, this is difficult to determine).

Doenst truly matter, if they couldnt get to the second floor, they wouldve had to scrub down. Than all the confusion would be moot

You are correct any model part of a unit (i.e. not an IC) takes wounds for the squad he would have to allocate at least 1 wound to the HB and roll it separate. He does not have to, and in this case cannot, put more than 1 wound on the HB, meaning 2 autokills go to the sqd, 2 armor to the squad and 1 armor save to the HB.
Because it is a different model and all the attacks go at the same int they are simultaneous. That may have been his point.
Did he roll the HB separate and make a save?

If you did roll out of sequence, forgetting that DT makes models without grenades act at Int 1.
Boss-No wounds no impact
Boyz- How many wounds caused? 10+? HB has to take two rolls separate from the squad.
PK- 2 wounds=kill 2 marines or 1 HB dead if 6+ wounds total!

Models with different wargear allocate wounds and roll separately; it would be the same if a sgt was there. He has 2 separate wound allocations. Say you caused 6 wounds; 4 armor saves and 2 PW wounds.
He could allocate both PW wounds to the HB and roll the 4 armor saves vs the squad, or he could put just 1 armor save on the HB,
In the end the HB has to at least make an armor save because there are 5+ wounds and 5 models so everyone has to make at least one! Unless of course that HB was from the other half of the combat sqd and not part of the other unit. Then he only has to roll for wounds caused by the warboss.