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First time poster, long time lurker, and I have a proposition - here's a chapter I've been sitting on for a while, but I'm really struggling to find a name for (current options: "Lords of Equilibrium" or "Angels of the Balance", it's strictly a WIP, and help would be appreciated!

They're a breakaway of a psyker heavy chapter (probably going to use 1k Sons), who were stationed with the Council of High Lords of Terra while under investigation to ensure that they were no longer using "sorcery", after the Council decided to ban psychic activity before the Horus Heresy. Since these ~100 Astartes were totally isolated from the Heresy throughout, they are devoid of guilt, as during their solitude, their psychic powers grew faint, as they drew their magic from Magnus himself, and having been pardoned by the Emperor, entered his service directly.

Getting changed to a 10th Founding Ultramarines successor chapter

Over time, their perception of the galaxy has changed, and they have begun to question the Emperor's role as one true god in the galaxy. Instead they respect all 5 (not including Malal or Xeno) gods in the galaxy, and that only with balance between them can the galaxy continue to exist.

To them, the Emperor represents order and justice, but also the suffering and death caused by maintaining such conditions. For example, the chapter spent many years in defence of a hive world, and saw that in this society, the poor remained poor, and died early after a pitiful existance, and any efforts to improve their quality of life was snuffed out by Imperial decree.

Tzeentch, "the Lord of Change" - to a "devout" Astartes, he represents trickery, lies, and deceit. On the other hand, Tzeentch represents evolution, and change (for better and for worse).

Nurgle is the facet of decay, but without disease and death, all would survive. Instead, only the strong survive, else the Galaxy would become overpopulated, and war would flourish.

Lust, pride and self-indulgence are the hallmarks of all who follow Slaanesh, but without him there would be no pleasure, no love, no friendship.

Khorne, the Blood God, Lord of Slaughter, revels in the blood shed throughout the galaxy, but does he not also represent strength in arms, chivalry and honour? None can deny that the Astartes do not fight incessantly, and take pride in their martial prowess, and show honour towards their opponents.

Their mantra with regards to the Ruinous Powers is not that they should be combated at every opportunity, as to do so would shift the balance, and serve to honour Khorne. Their duty is to mankind, to serve and protect even the lowliest of citizens, and they will only enter combat with the forces of Chaos if they represent a threat to the people of the Imperium.

Founding Chapter- Ultramarines

Battlecry- "The Balance must be maintained!" "Balance in all things!" "For Mankind! For Terra!"

Appearance- As in image below. When not wearing a helmet, all members of this chapter have their eyes covered with a blindfold, to prevent them from ever falling to temptation from seeing the mutations of chaos, and they perceive their environment through a combination of a unique extrasensory implant, and their ever fading psychic powers.

Battleforce- Due to the nature of the forming of this chapter, they have no vehicles other than what they brought with them to the Council of High Lords, and as such field very few, if any, vehicles.

To expand, the chapter mostly travels around the periphery of the Galaxy, assisting agri-worlds and such, and their first approach is always diplomacy, even in the face of xenos and heretics. I will pad this out eventually but I have some deadlines looming, but think jedi consular-esque.

If anyone can think of a better origin for the chapter (1k sons seemed to fit the bill best, although currently it's a bit cheesy), I'm sure you Dakkatrons have some ace ideas up your sleeves, so hit me with it!

Not bad at all.

Chapters were not created until after the Heresy.
This is why the traitor legions are legions and not chapters which the loyalists are...
If i was you i would make them a fairly old founding (10th) and then make them break away some centuries later after being declared renegade by the Inquisition/High Lords for general sorcery.
Good idea though...
As for names...
'Lords of Equilibrium' springs to mind as does 'Angels of the Balance'

P.s. We are Dakkanaughts

P.p.s Just make them an Ultramarine successors. Traitor chapters is a touchy subject so it's better to avoid that IMO...

Thanks for the feedback, I was trying desperately to avoid ultrasmurfs, would Dark Angels be a decent fit?

Probably not...
They have a real thing about traitors and anything that might connect them to chaos...
There's nothing wrong with an Ultramraine successor. 60% of chapters are Ultramarine successors. They don't have to follow or look up to the Ultramarines for instance the Mortifactors are very unlike the Ultramarines and they are a 2nd founding chapter which means they date back to when their original chapter was in the Ultramarine Legion.
My own DIY chapter is an Ultramarine successor.

If you really really want to avoid ltramarine successor-ship however just say unknown or possibly Imperial Fists.

Dark Angels are a bad fit due to the culture and connections between DA successors.

Thanks for giving me a push in the right direction! I've got to get back to work, but more comments or suggestions for more colourful fluff would be appreciated!

Some examples of their motivations might be good...
Such as battles. Have they switched sides in order to 'maintain the balance'? Who have they killed and what have they done to do it.
I always like to see at least 2 notable events/battles and 3 notable characters more can be done but that is the minimum for a fairly well thought out chapte IMO.
Establishing what has changed their ideology from Emperor and Imperium to 'The Balance' might help.
Talking about previous homeworld/tactics/beliefs is good especially if you contrast it with current hoemworld (or lack of/tactics/beliefs.

I'll get onto it once work is under control, thanks for tips.


EDIT: One of the critical events for the chapter will be witnessing an exterminatus after they determined that the situation on the ground was of no danger to the surrounding planets. Something along the lines of imperial outpost rebellion due to harsh regulations suppressing the populace. The driving force behind the rebellion were a bunch of Tzeentchian cultists, and once they had siezed power, the whole planet began to revere the Lord of Change. The chapter had maintained a close eye on proceedings throughout, and had attempted to solve the conflict peacefully before the rebellion truly commenced. However, the governor would not yield power over his people, and would rather that they died to maintain order on the planet, and to remain on the strict export schedule determined by the Administratum. In the eyes of Commander Socratus, the people of the planet were justified in their rebellion, and their intentions were only to break the harsh cycle that held them. Furthermore, they found no evidence of any warp activity, nor that the cultists had attempted any sort of ritual. They deemed that the civilians had turned to Tzeentch in their time of need, and by apparent chance, their needs had been met, and they were free form oppression.

Having submitted their findings to the Ordo Hereticus, they maintained a blockade around the planet awaiting correspondance. Weeks passed, until eventually an Ordo Malleus fleet appeared, intent on carrying out their orders of an exterminatus. The "insert chapter name here"s protested furiously with the fleet, using all of their powers of reasoning, but to no avail. "Insert hive world population here" were disintegrated under the barrage of torpedos. From that moment, they could see that the Imperium was lost to itself- no longer did it protect, it did everything it could to survive.

I have a problem with a chapter 'accepting' the ruinous powers as anything but pure evil. Chaos nearly destroyed the Imperium. It still tries to at every turn. A chapter of space marines, the emperor's finest, the defenders of humanity, not doing everything they can to kill every mutant, witch, xenos, heretic, or renegade is just not right. Space Marines all hate Chaos, its just the way it goes.

I refer you to Bolter and Chainsword who have a number of guides and ideas on Space Marine chapter creation.

Then again, your army and all that, so do as you wish. For others, understand that if they can't picture their chapter fighting alongside yours clearing out a space hulk together, they won't want to hear about your fluff.

Blacksails wrote:I have a problem with a chapter 'accepting' the ruinous powers as anything but pure evil. Chaos nearly destroyed the Imperium. It still tries to at every turn. A chapter of space marines, the emperor's finest, the defenders of humanity, not doing everything they can to kill every mutant, witch, xenos, heretic, or renegade is just not right. Space Marines all hate Chaos, its just the way it goes.

I refer you to Bolter and Chainsword who have a number of guides and ideas on Space Marine chapter creation.

Then again, your army and all that, so do as you wish. For others, understand that if they can't picture their chapter fighting alongside yours clearing out a space hulk together, they won't want to hear about your fluff.

That very same B&C article has a section regarding renegadesw and the handling of their fluff...
If the Librairans of tis chapter took over, they very well could have influenced the ideas (through example not sorcery) of their brethren, leading to their eventual defection/renegade-ness.

purplefood wrote:

Blacksails wrote:I have a problem with a chapter 'accepting' the ruinous powers as anything but pure evil. Chaos nearly destroyed the Imperium. It still tries to at every turn. A chapter of space marines, the emperor's finest, the defenders of humanity, not doing everything they can to kill every mutant, witch, xenos, heretic, or renegade is just not right. Space Marines all hate Chaos, its just the way it goes.

I refer you to Bolter and Chainsword who have a number of guides and ideas on Space Marine chapter creation.

Then again, your army and all that, so do as you wish. For others, understand that if they can't picture their chapter fighting alongside yours clearing out a space hulk together, they won't want to hear about your fluff.

That very same B&C article has a section regarding renegadesw and the handling of their fluff...
If the Librairans of tis chapter took over, they very well could have influenced the ideas (through example not sorcery) of their brethren, leading to their eventual defection/renegade-ness.

True, but my understanding of this chapter is that it is a loyalist chapter. If it was renegade or had distinct hints that they were on the path to chaos, it would make sense, but as it is, it really doesn't for the reasons I stated above.

In short, I can't see a loyalist chapter 'accepting' the chaos gods without succumbing to them in short order.

Blacksails wrote:I have a problem with a chapter 'accepting' the ruinous powers as anything but pure evil. Chaos nearly destroyed the Imperium. It still tries to at every turn. A chapter of space marines, the emperor's finest, the defenders of humanity, not doing everything they can to kill every mutant, witch, xenos, heretic, or renegade is just not right. Space Marines all hate Chaos, its just the way it goes.

I refer you to Bolter and Chainsword who have a number of guides and ideas on Space Marine chapter creation.

Then again, your army and all that, so do as you wish. For others, understand that if they can't picture their chapter fighting alongside yours clearing out a space hulk together, they won't want to hear about your fluff.

Do you not see the flaw in this logic? The Imperium took the fight to the Tau, despite the Tau striving for peace in the galaxy. Astartes will often intervene in conflicts that do not directly impact on the security of the galaxy, further stirring up the hornet's nest. Yes atrocities are performed in the names of the Chaos gods constantly, but how many beings have been slain to the tune of "For the Emperor!"? It may turn out that this chapter has to be renegade, and I'm fine with that, but to see the 40k fluff as purely good vs evil is surely a tad naive?

That's the whole point of 40k. That the Imperium is really no better than the forces of Chaos. In terms of game fluff, it literally makes no sense to have a space marine chapter accept the forces of chaos. Its not a flaw in my logic, or even 40ks, its a feature of the universe. The underlying conflict in 40k is that of the Imperium vs. Chaos, and one of the most important events for the Imperium was the Horus Heresy. Since then, every loyalist chapter HATES chaos, its just the way it is. Making a chapter like this is on par with chaos Grey Knights. It just doesn't fit in the fluff.

But, as I said earlier, your models/money/time and all that, so do as you please, just don't expect other 40k fans to think your idea makes a whole lot of sense in the universe.

*EDIT* Let me clarify as well. I don't think the concept is inherently bad. It just doesn't work while simultaneously being a loyalist chapter. What could work is for them to go completely renegade/chaos and pillage and stuff, or for them to fall out of grace with the Imperium and be hunted down tirelessly by the Inquisition and other chapters while still trying to do 'good' for the Imperium.

That would work, and be believable in the context of the universe.

Is there not a difference between loyalty and subordination? You seem to be saying that because they don't follow the Imperial decrees to the letter, they cannot be loyal to the Emperor. I understand if that would make them renegade, as naturally, those in authority would deem them as betraying the Emperor. These are by no means "Chaos Grey Knights", and shouldn't be treated as such. Given that Astartes have been fighting the Ruinous Powers for millenia, and that some individuals have spent centuries facing them in combat, witnessing terrible horrors, is it really that likely that a Chapter would become corrupted simply because they refuse to exterminate heretics without confirmation that they pose a threat to humanity as a whole?

Also, thanks for the feedback, it's forcing me to tighten up the concept!

Make them a renegade chapter.
They don't work as a loyalist chapter...
Renegades don't have to be on anyones side but they do need a safe haven because they would be hinted ruthlessly otherwise.

Valour wrote:Is there not a difference between loyalty and subordination? You seem to be saying that because they don't follow the Imperial decrees to the letter, they cannot be loyal to the Emperor. I understand if that would make them renegade, as naturally, those in authority would deem them as betraying the Emperor. These are by no means "Chaos Grey Knights", and shouldn't be treated as such. Given that Astartes have been fighting the Ruinous Powers for millenia, and that some individuals have spent centuries facing them in combat, witnessing terrible horrors, is it really that likely that a Chapter would become corrupted simply because they refuse to exterminate heretics without confirmation that they pose a threat to humanity as a whole?

Also, thanks for the feedback, it's forcing me to tighten up the concept!

Right, they can easily be renegade and not corrupted by the ruinous powers. That's fine and works, especially if well written. Just remember one thing about the 40k universe about being different; the Inquisition is always there, always vigiliant, and always watching for anything remotely heretical. Chapters have been destroyed/excommunicated for a lot less than your idea, like worshipping the emperor as an animal totem.

But renegades works fine.

Sorry if I may have been a little harsh, hard to convey nuances of speech through forum posts sometimes. Glad to have helped.

Blacksails wrote:

Valour wrote:Is there not a difference between loyalty and subordination? You seem to be saying that because they don't follow the Imperial decrees to the letter, they cannot be loyal to the Emperor. I understand if that would make them renegade, as naturally, those in authority would deem them as betraying the Emperor. These are by no means "Chaos Grey Knights", and shouldn't be treated as such. Given that Astartes have been fighting the Ruinous Powers for millenia, and that some individuals have spent centuries facing them in combat, witnessing terrible horrors, is it really that likely that a Chapter would become corrupted simply because they refuse to exterminate heretics without confirmation that they pose a threat to humanity as a whole?

Also, thanks for the feedback, it's forcing me to tighten up the concept!

Right, they can easily be renegade and not corrupted by the ruinous powers. That's fine and works, especially if well written. Just remember one thing about the 40k universe about being different; the Inquisition is always there, always vigiliant, and always watching for anything remotely heretical. Chapters have been destroyed/excommunicated for a lot less than your idea, like worshipping the emperor as an animal totem.

But renegades works fine.

Sorry if I may have been a little harsh, hard to convey nuances of speech through forum posts sometimes. Glad to have helped.

Actually the fellows worshipping the animal totem (Whop they view as another aspect of the Emperor) were never actually declared Excommunicate and they are alive just entrenched in a massive bunker complex... under an ocean...

purplefood wrote:

Blacksails wrote:

Valour wrote:Is there not a difference between loyalty and subordination? You seem to be saying that because they don't follow the Imperial decrees to the letter, they cannot be loyal to the Emperor. I understand if that would make them renegade, as naturally, those in authority would deem them as betraying the Emperor. These are by no means "Chaos Grey Knights", and shouldn't be treated as such. Given that Astartes have been fighting the Ruinous Powers for millenia, and that some individuals have spent centuries facing them in combat, witnessing terrible horrors, is it really that likely that a Chapter would become corrupted simply because they refuse to exterminate heretics without confirmation that they pose a threat to humanity as a whole?

Also, thanks for the feedback, it's forcing me to tighten up the concept!

Right, they can easily be renegade and not corrupted by the ruinous powers. That's fine and works, especially if well written. Just remember one thing about the 40k universe about being different; the Inquisition is always there, always vigiliant, and always watching for anything remotely heretical. Chapters have been destroyed/excommunicated for a lot less than your idea, like worshipping the emperor as an animal totem.

But renegades works fine.

Sorry if I may have been a little harsh, hard to convey nuances of speech through forum posts sometimes. Glad to have helped.

Actually the fellows worshipping the animal totem (Whop they view as another aspect of the Emperor) were never actually declared Excommunicate and they are alive just entrenched in a massive bunker complex... under an ocean...

I stand corrected. Either way, bad things happened.

Blacksails wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Blacksails wrote:

Valour wrote:Is there not a difference between loyalty and subordination? You seem to be saying that because they don't follow the Imperial decrees to the letter, they cannot be loyal to the Emperor. I understand if that would make them renegade, as naturally, those in authority would deem them as betraying the Emperor. These are by no means "Chaos Grey Knights", and shouldn't be treated as such. Given that Astartes have been fighting the Ruinous Powers for millenia, and that some individuals have spent centuries facing them in combat, witnessing terrible horrors, is it really that likely that a Chapter would become corrupted simply because they refuse to exterminate heretics without confirmation that they pose a threat to humanity as a whole?

Also, thanks for the feedback, it's forcing me to tighten up the concept!

Right, they can easily be renegade and not corrupted by the ruinous powers. That's fine and works, especially if well written. Just remember one thing about the 40k universe about being different; the Inquisition is always there, always vigiliant, and always watching for anything remotely heretical. Chapters have been destroyed/excommunicated for a lot less than your idea, like worshipping the emperor as an animal totem.

But renegades works fine.

Sorry if I may have been a little harsh, hard to convey nuances of speech through forum posts sometimes. Glad to have helped.

Actually the fellows worshipping the animal totem (Whop they view as another aspect of the Emperor) were never actually declared Excommunicate and they are alive just entrenched in a massive bunker complex... under an ocean...

I stand corrected. Either way, bad things happened.

Bad things will happen if that mental confessor fellow is allowed to further his campaign. He has apprently requested SM forces to breach and clear the bunker complex...

Thanks chaps, i'll make some changes and add some more fluff when I have time.