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Hey Guys

I am organizing a tournament in around 2 weeks time and i am allowing the new 5th edition Necron codex to be in this tournament.
I am planning to write in the Rulespack a few FAQs of my own for the codex of the way that i am interpreting the codex rules
for the tournament to save arguments that could be caused.

but i have one slight problem i do not fully understand the Death Ray rules.

My view is at the moment is that it only hits models underneath the line in the same way that a bolt thrower in warhammer fantasy hits the models underneath the line.

But i would like your view on this and depending on comments and the results of the poll i have made,
I will put that particular one as my FAQ in my tournament.

If you think there should be another option for the poll then please let me know as there is lots of ways to interpret this rule

Also do you think this gun allows models that are in combat to get hit by it?

I personally do because of the fact both you and your enemy can be hit by it but would like your opinion.

lastly i just want to say sorry if this is the wrong place to post this topic but to me seemed like the
one that made the most sense if it is the wrong place then inform me and i shall move it to that area.

If you can read Spanish there has already been an FAQ release. We discussed this on another forum actually and while everyone agreed that there are some grammatical errors the way it is written we had 2 interpretations on how to play it just because of that.

Spanish Necron FAQ

Ok so ive looked up the Spanish FAQ and it hasnt made it much clearer
how does it explain that the entire unit get hit by the gun which is wahat your saying

for reference i translated the text by using Google translator which might not be 100% correct but here it is below anyway.

Death Ray. Replace the third sentence: "Each
unit (both friendly and enemy) that it is under this line,
suffer a number of hits equal to the number of miniatures
of the unit who are under the line. "

Based on the translation, I read it as follows: Each unit the line passes through suffers "N" hits, where "N" is the number of models the line touches in the given unit.

Let's say you make a line hitting 3 separate squads. For simplicity's sake Squads A,B,C.
A: 4 models under line
B:2 models under line
C:6 models under line

Please note this does not "snipe" particular models as it affects units.

A needs 4 tests
B needs 2 tests
C needs 6 tests

From the FAQ (translation):

P50 .- Ray of death. Replace the third sentence: "Each
unit (both friendly and enemy) that it is under this line,
suffer a number of hits equal to the number of models
of the unit who are under the line. "

Sorry, what FAQ is that? UK GW site only has the 3rd ed codex FAQ up.

Its the number of models in THAT unit that were under the line, so if 4 models from unit A were under the line then you would have 4 hits.

Remember this does NOT bypass wound allocation rules, so you dont have to remove the ones underneath the line.

Why didnt they just word it like Jotww then?

"Each model under the line (friend or foe) Takes X"

EDIT: Answered my own Question, they want to make sure its distributed as shooting, so even if it hits an IC, it still hits a "unit" Got it.... I think

Tsilber wrote: Why didnt they just word it like Jotww then?

"Each model under the line (friend or foe) Takes X"

EDIT: Answered my own Question, they want to make sure its distributed as shooting, so even if it hits an IC, it still hits a "unit" Got it.... I think

That is precisely why. Jaws is a terrible blight on the game IMHO, so I'm very glad to see them use a slightly different mechanic, even if the wording used was quite problematic in its clarity.

In the end its still a pretty nasty weapon, but I agree with you on How this is better, and JoTWW is OP (And my other Army is SpaceWolfs...)

This has nothing to do with JotWW. Jaws is able to "snipe" characters because it causes a characteristic test on specific models.

Even if the Death Ray said it hit those specific models, the controlling player would still be able to allocate wounds as normal.

So, the ambiguous wording isn't a way to avoid sniping. Sniping was already avoided by making it cause wounds.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Sorry, what FAQ is that? UK GW site only has the 3rd ed codex FAQ up.

Its the number of models in THAT unit that were under the line, so if 4 models from unit A were under the line then you would have 4 hits.

Remember this does NOT bypass wound allocation rules, so you dont have to remove the ones underneath the line.

I believe that which Shrike posted is a translation of the Spanish FAQ which I posted a link to previously.

Ah yes, see that now. But still, its because they did have it hitting every model in the unit in the Spanish codex, so they have rush changed it...

The Death Ray works similarly to Jaws of the World Wolf. It hits models that touch the line. Here is the wording:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

If your line moves through a mob of Ork Boyz, but only goes over 6 of them, only 6 take hits.

To read it otherwise would mean that they repeated the "underneath the line" at the beginning of the clause and the at the end of the clause for no reason. That is redundant. If that were correct, it would read like:

"Anything underneath the line suffers hits underneath the line."

That is improper grammar. To say that the last "underneath the line" describes the "unit" is incorrect. It helps to break it down gramatically:

Subject Every unit
Adjective underneath the line
Verb suffers hits
Adverb 1 equal to the number of models
Adverb 2 (modifies adverb 1) in the unit
Adverb 3 (modifies adverb 2) underneath the line

You know it would have worked out much simpler if they said... "Each unit suffers a hit for each of their models under the line" ... but then we might all have it wrong and you really do hit every one in the unit.

Why is the second option winning if everyone who posts is advocating option 3?

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:Why is the second option winning if everyone who posts is advocating option 3?

No one is saying option 3. The wording is ambiguous between options 1 and 2.

I'm in favor of the reading of option 1 (making the Death Ray awesome), but with the Spanish FAQ, it looks like option 2 is the intended reading (making the Death Ray worthless).

puma713 wrote:The Death Ray works similarly to Jaws of the World Wolf. It hits models that touch the line. Here is the wording:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

If your line moves through a mob of Ork Boyz, but only goes over 6 of them, only 6 take hits.

To read it otherwise would mean that they repeated the "underneath the line" at the beginning of the clause and the at the end of the clause for no reason. That is redundant. If that were correct, it would read like:

"Anything underneath the line suffers hits underneath the line."

That is improper grammar. To say that the last "underneath the line" describes the "unit" is incorrect. It helps to break it down gramatically:

Subject Every unit
Adjective underneath the line
Verb suffers hits
Adverb 1 equal to the number of models
Adverb 2 (modifies adverb 1) in the unit
Adverb 3 (modifies adverb 2) underneath the line

I do believe puma713 has it. Although I must say that GW could have written it better, especially since the Death Ray is a particularly powerful form of attack. A simple addition of "that are themselves" between adverbs 2 and 3 would immediately clarify it.

Grakmar wrote:(making the Death Ray worthless).

A strength 10 AP 1 shot that can hit multiple units and NEVER miss is worthless?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xca|iber wrote: Although I must say that GW could have written it better, especially since the Death Ray is a particularly powerful form of attack. A simple addition of "that are themselves" between adverbs 2 and 3 would immediately clarify it.

Or, they could have put an example in it, much like they did with the IC who can (Trazyn or something) kill all of a like model in a unit in cc.

Green is Best! wrote:

Grakmar wrote:(making the Death Ray worthless).

A strength 10 AP 1 shot that can hit multiple units and NEVER miss is worthless?

With a 12" range, on a 11AV vehicle, for 175 points.

It's either incredibly undercosted, or incredibly overcosted, depending on the FAQ.

Grakmar wrote:

Green is Best! wrote:

Grakmar wrote:(making the Death Ray worthless).

A strength 10 AP 1 shot that can hit multiple units and NEVER miss is worthless?

With a 12" range, on a 11AV vehicle, for 175 points.

It's either incredibly undercosted, or incredibly overcosted, depending on the FAQ.

12" plus the 3d6 dice roll I thought? Is the vehicle it's on fast? For some reason I thought it was.

streamdragon wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

Green is Best! wrote:

Grakmar wrote:(making the Death Ray worthless).

A strength 10 AP 1 shot that can hit multiple units and NEVER miss is worthless?

With a 12" range, on a 11AV vehicle, for 175 points.

It's either incredibly undercosted, or incredibly overcosted, depending on the FAQ.

12" plus the 3d6 dice roll I thought? Is the vehicle it's on fast? For some reason I thought it was.

Not only that it can fire all weapons at cruising speed.

threat range is 27-42" (67% of results falling within 32-37" range)

Grakmar wrote:
With a 12" range, on a 11AV vehicle, for 175 points.

It's either incredibly undercosted, or incredibly overcosted, depending on the FAQ.

And, if you're going first on say pitched battle:
Deploy 12" forward
Move 12"
Shoot 12" + 3d6" (so you potentially have a shooting range of 15"-30") Even an average roll of 9" is going to let you hit most things on the board.

Yes, it will not survive long, but it could put a real hurting on units.

Granted, it would receive my attention immediately, but I would hardly call it worthless.

And, we haven't even mentioned the assault cannon-esque shots it gets on top of that.

And, if it was like option 1, it would render green tide obsolet on the 1st turn. You would simply need to fly to the border between two 30 man mobs. Hit one from each unit and do 60 str 10 ap 1 hits that auto hit, wound on a 2 with no save? That would just be too much.

What I mean to say is I am somewhat surprised that people are having trouble fully understanding how this rule works.

Ta. reds8n

You draw a line, count the number of models in a unit that it covers, the unit takes that many wounds. In other words, it works like a flamer but it's a line. I can't begin to understand why this is confusing so many people on this forum. I feel like this is one of the more clearly worded rules they have produced.

I honestly don't see where the confusion is. The very fact that some people think that touching a single model in a unit of 30 ork boys or termagaunts means that every single model takes a S10 AP1 hit is just ridiculous. With a 3d6 line you could legitimately touch 3-4 units, do they honestly think GW would put a weapon in the game that can wipe out that many troops with one shot?

The rule was written that way so that Necron players don't try to cheese d*ck it like Space Wolf players do with Jaws of the World Wolf. RAW, the MODEL touched by Jaws has to take the initiative test or die - which leads to players trying to hit Sergeants, special weapons, and Independent Characters inside units, which I hate.

This way, it doesn't MATTER whether the line is on the Sergeant, the Plasma Cannon, or Eldrad. The UNIT takes the hits, rather than the specific model. Granted they could have worded it better, but that is the clear intent.

Intent is clear I believe but the wording from what I can tell can be taken 1 of 2 ways and be correct either way. Here is an example for both ways it can be taken.

Example 1) The line for Death Ray passes over 3 models in a unit of 10. There are 10 models in the unit underneath the line.

Example 2) The line for Death Ray passes over 3 models in a unit of 10. There are 3 models in the unit underneath the line.

Both follow the grammar of the rule and the raw of the rule but both are quite different in their meaning. I feel 2 commas is all this rule needed to make it crystal clear and leave little room for interpretation.

We have a Necron Spanish FAQ (one page), but the Sisters of Battle are still in 2009...Sad.

Maybe there was a bad dialogue issue/misprint with the Spanish copies?

Yeah - the Spanish copies did say something like "every model in the unit under the line is hit" and was FAQd to say otherwise.