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Does anybody have any experiences using Kustom Megablastas on Killa Kans versus Grey Knight Paladins? My instincts had always been to dismiss this weapon out of hand, because Orks have low BS and the weapon has the Gets Hot! special rule. Maybe it makes sense on the kans. Thoughts?

I took 9 of them once. The real problem is that even with BS 3, you are only making 4.5 hits, 3.75 wounds, followed by their 5+ invul or 4+ cover saves, 2.5 dead terminators at most. This is OK for the 5 man squads IF you get the drop on them, but more than that kinda gets out of hand with their Psycannons wrecking your Kanz on their first shoot phase.

I am highly considering Grotzookas. 2 shot template weapon, 18+ shots, at least 6 hits, wounds T4 on a 2+, 5 wounds. They still get their 2+, but they will be rolling far more often than with KMB. The Grotzooka is also very useful against the other Gray Knight infantry. Plus I'll be saving 90 points to put into the REAL Paladin Killer: Boyz.

Lootas and Nob Bikers and Deffrollas have been so killer for so long, but now things have come full circle. Cheap, expendable, 5 dice throwing Boyz. How many attacks does a Palladin get on the charge? 3, maybe 4? For the same 55 points, you can throw 45 attacks at him. Throw 60 Boyz with 2 Power Klaws at a 10 man Paladin Squad and see who comes out on top.

Unfortunately, I'm at work, and so must respond with my iPhone; but have to respond, because I'm bored.

You know, four psycannons will destroy only 1 Killa kans per round of shooting, assuming that the squad has moved. If not, they'll kill two. This is without cover. Now, if you have nine kans, and they catch up, won't the paladins have a hard time of it?

Yeah, I just figured the numbers. 14 out if 27 chance 52% to wreck/destroy a Squadroned Killa Kan with 2 Psycannons. 16 out of 27 59% to Shake a Kan. That would actually not be too bad of a kill ratio. 9 Kanz vs 10 Palladins, no other units, I could see the Kanz shooting the Gray Knights to Death. I just remember having my Kanz trashed, perhaps from support units.

Catch up? Do you mean assault?


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I still believe in Boyz.

Was it the Psybolt Dreads doing the kan killing? I have to come up with a plan to tie them up turn one or two, because destroying them is hard in assault and impossible in shooting.

2.5 dead paladins by shooting might actually be worth spending those 45 points(compared to rokkits) across nine kanz.

Psyfleman dreads are best taken care of with deff koptaz. As servo skulls will most likely block your scout moves, you will have to endure a round of shooting though. However, the dreads might chose to shoot at the three deff koptaz turbo-boosting at them first turn, probably resulting in some dead koptaz, but keeping your kanz save for that turn. If you actually get a dread locked in combat, you are in a great position, two wounds, T5 and 4+ armor will keep them busy for some time. Attempt Hit and Run during their turn for additional rokkits.

As you already said, anything based on shooting will most likely do nothing at all, so buggies and lootaz are out of question, kommandoz might help but can easily be countered by clever placement/movement on the GK player's side.

In the end, we have way less models than you do, usually we outnumber them from 5:1 to 10:1. So even if you kanz die from shooting, they protected the rest of your army and you have enough stuff left to shoot the paladins to death.

I've attacked Psydreads with Snikrot before, and he didn't do too well, since he is only base 5 Strength. A PK Kommando Nob might work.

Seeing as I broadened the thread to the Psybolt Dreads, I might as well continue it with some thoughts I have had.

How to deal with psybolt dreads as an Ork player? Here are a few thoughts, none of which involves shooting:

1). Meganobs will never get near to there with either a trukk or a battlewagon; the trukk is much much too fragile, and the wagon much too slow. Pass.

2). Deffkoptas can tie the unit up, but the S7 power klaw is very unlikely to destroy it, while the psybolt dread will eventually put a wound on the koptas, and force a break test, which it will likely fail. Pass.

3). Kommandos are a option that won't break easily, the power-klaw nob can destroy it (or even a warboss or equivalent may accompany it), and Snikrot can get the backedge. My problem is that you have to wait till turn two at a minimal for the squad to show up, that that's still fifty-fifty. I don't want to wait till turn four before I can advance with my AV 10 & AV 11 vehicles. That's a maybe.

4). Bikerboys (not Bikernobs) are what I have been leaning toward. Bikerboys are fast (they can be on the pybolts turn one or turbobust), are some what durable (cover saves & T5), the nobs have bosspoles & power-klaw Nobs. Crazy enough, the PK Nob is as likely to destroy the Psybolt Dreadnaught as the Psydolt Dread is to kill one bikerboy (1 in 3) -- fair trade.

They're are some problems though, mostly in price, naturally: so much so that getting troops and elites and heavies right is hard. I have actually been considering taking Wazzdakka in a Kan Wall list! I'll post my army list later.

I take Wazdakka all the time for his ability to shoot 4 S8 shots while Turboboosting, with some Nob Bikers. Statistically, he also has a 133% chance of hitting, compared to a twin linked Dakkagun's 167%. Pretty good odds for an Ork. 5+ to damage it, 22% to glance, 22% chance to pen. In order to protect him, I take like 9 TL Rokkit Koptas to Tournaments and against Gray Knights just to take out the Vindicare. Jerk off snipes my Painboyz, ICs, even the front armour of a Battlewagon.

I agree with Ghenghis in his love for rockets. I don't use bikes, but I run a kan wall with no dreads...use the points on lootas and koptas. Gives you a whole lot of fire power going back the other way and typically proves to be pretty effective for me.

MakersHitstheMark wrote:I agree with Ghenghis in his love for rockets. I don't use bikes, but I run a kan wall with no dreads...use the points on lootas and koptas. Gives you a whole lot of fire power going back the other way and typically proves to be pretty effective for me.

I don't want to downplay your experiences, nor up play my own, but I have to argue that Lootas are not the solution to Psybolt Dreadnaughts. The combination of AV 12 and Fortitude means those 15 Lootas will not stop a Dreadnaught from firing every turn, especially if they're in cover. Two Rokkits Deffkopts might be able to hit Dreadnaught back armor, but I have my doubts. I would much rather tie up the Dreads with scoring Bikers, and await the rest of my army to kill them after taking the center (which will be a decimating bloodbath even if I set up the assaults right my way).

My problem with Rokkits on the KKs is that they'll not double out the blasted Paladins. Isn't it worth the extra 5 points?

Ghenghis Jon wrote:I take Wazdakka all the time for his ability to shoot 4 S8 shots while Turboboosting, with some Nob Bikers. Statistically, he also has a 133% chance of hitting, compared to a twin linked Dakkagun's 167%. Pretty good odds for an Ork. 5+ to damage it, 22% to glance, 22% chance to pen. In order to protect him, I take like 9 TL Rokkit Koptas to Tournaments and against Gray Knights just to take out the Vindicare. Jerk off snipes my Painboyz, ICs, even the front armour of a Battlewagon.

Flawed math here. The Dakkacannon has an ~80% chance to hit at least once. The number you calculated means it will hit an average of 1.33 shots, same for dakka gun.

thunderingjove wrote:

MakersHitstheMark wrote:I agree with Ghenghis in his love for rockets. I don't use bikes, but I run a kan wall with no dreads...use the points on lootas and koptas. Gives you a whole lot of fire power going back the other way and typically proves to be pretty effective for me.

I don't want to downplay your experiences, nor up play my own, but I have to argue that Lootas are not the solution to Psybolt Dreadnaughts. The combination of AV 12 and Fortitude means those 15 Lootas will not stop a Dreadnaught from firing every turn, especially if they're in cover. Two Rokkits Deffkopts might be able to hit Dreadnaught back armor, but I have my doubts. I would much rather tie up the Dreads with scoring Bikers, and await the rest of my army to kill them after taking the center (which will be a decimating bloodbath even if I set up the assaults right my way).

My problem with Rokkits on the KKs is that they'll not double out the blasted Paladins. Isn't it worth the extra 5 points?

There is nothing wrong with KMB on kanz, both of the previous posters are referring to koptaz. There really is no point in putting a KMB on both koptaz or buggies, as both trade twin-linked rokkits for non-twin-linked KMBs. Total waste of points.

If you are tailoring versus that one opponent, bikes will probably your best shot versus those psyflemen, and their shooting isn't even that bad against paladins. Sadly, they tend to be useless against most armies. A SAG will probably also have a field day shooting at paladins, just make sure to keep it in a unit that can take some psyfleman shots, so gretchin or boyz.

Jidmah wrote:
There is nothing wrong with KMB on kanz, both of the previous posters are referring to koptaz. There really is no point in putting a KMB on both koptaz or buggies, as both trade twin-linked rokkits for non-twin-linked KMBs. Total waste of points.

Thanks for the clarity, and agreed.

Jidmah wrote:

If you are tailoring versus that one opponent, bikes will probably your best shot versus those psyflemen, and their shooting isn't even that bad against paladins. Sadly, they tend to be useless against most armies. A SAG will probably also have a field day shooting at paladins, just make sure to keep it in a unit that can take some psyfleman shots, so gretchin or boyz.

Bikers are very fragile. I was thinking of keeping them in reserve until end game against other opponents for objective-grabbing, or turbo-blasting them around for the 3+ cover save. However, as you wrote, I'll need to do more research into the subject.

You know what's crazy? One Psybolt Dreadnought has only a 15-percent chance of destroying a Deffdread in cover. Something to think about.

@ Jidmah: I could have gone wrong with my math, but I don't knoe where. Wazzdakka's BS 2, 33% to hit, times the Dakkakannon's A4 shots, should equal 133%. BS 2 for twin-linked Dakkagunz, 56% to hit, times the A3 shots, should equal 167%.

Where do you get 80% for Wazdakka and 133% for Dakkagunz?

Run a green tide and laugh as he kills 18p worth of Boyz.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:@ Jidmah: I could have gone wrong with my math, but I don't knoe where. Wazzdakka's BS 2, 33% to hit, times the Dakkakannon's A4 shots, should equal 133%. BS 2 for twin-linked Dakkagunz, 56% to hit, times the A3 shots, should equal 167%.

Where do you get 80% for Wazdakka and 133% for Dakkagunz?

One shot is 33% alright, but four shots are not four times 33%.

Just pick up six dice and roll them. Each side has a 16.6% chance of getting rolled, six times that would be 100%. However, you'll most likely find that you didn't roll one of each, but rather some random mix of results.

If you want to find the chance of getting at least one hit, the easiest way to do so is calculating the chance of missing all shots and subtracting it from 100%.

For Wazzdakka, the chance to miss one shot is 66.6%. The chance to miss two shots is (66.6%)^2 = 44.4%. The chance to miss all four shots is (66.6%)^4 = 19.8%. So the chance to not miss all four(hit at least once) is 80.2%.
The number you calculated was the following:
4 Shots * 33.33% chance to hit = 1.33 hits on average.


It's a bit more tricky for twin-linked dakka-guns. A single twin-linked BS2 shot has a 33% chance to hit the first time, and a 22% chance to get rerolled and then hit. Total chance of 55.5% to hit, 44.4% to miss.

(44.4%)^3 = 8.78% to miss -> 91.22% to hit at least once.
3 Shots * 55.55% chance to hit = 1.66 hits on average.

Now I see. I have been calculating average hits this whole time, not chance to hit. Time to re-do the Excel Spreadsheet.


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Maybe not. I think I am more concerned with the average number of hits than the chance to hit or miss altogether.